HettyKet

<lurks> can't get that link to work at all. - - - Updated - - - :o Got it via google, sorry! https://www.google.nl/search?q=http://www.tattooartistmagazingblog.com/2011/08/11/guen-douglas-how-to-properly-examine-a-tattoo-portfolio/&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&ei=l0EwUtfsA5SQ0QXN2IDIBw#q=guen-douglas-how-to-properly-examine-a-tattoo-portfolio%2F&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial

Was just looking at these photos of preserved, tattooed skin taken from (dead) french prisoners around the turn of the century. Horrid but strangely fascinating and beautiful. - - - Updated - - - I think those are nipples on that last specimen <shudder> Poor sods.

Ah, right, just read up on the Amsterdam Tattoo Museum situation. Awful. Sounds like there's not a lot of hope of them being open again in the sort term. All the more reason to buy the book I suppose - will drop into the popup shop next time I'm in town though.

:o should have thought of that myself, shouldn't I. Ho Hum. I suppose I always thought it was just another part of the trashy tourist attraction thing there's such a lot of there, rather than an actual museum...

Wow! That's beautiful! I'm pretty close to Amsterdam, as it happens. Do you know if they exhibit the photos? - - - Updated - - - Oh, sorry. Does it say who she is? Book list is getting long - better watch it doesn't eat my tattoo budget.

Right, thanks again! May be time for some more shelves soon at this rate.

Thanks Graeme! Ordered that earlier this week - should be here end of next week <twiddles thumbs> I've spent many an hour digging through the archive you linked - great stuff. Glad to hear I'm on the right track and that it really is a case of join the dots. Will see if I can get hold of Stony Knows and Memoirs of a Tattooist. Good tips. I'm trying to find a copy of Tommy Palazzolo's short 1967 documentary The Tatooed Lady of Riverview (is about Jean Carroll) but failing spectacularly on that front, unfortunately. Do you know anything about the use of colour in tattoos of that period by any chance? I managed to find this (Jean Carroll again) but the tattoos are already well aged it's very hard to see any details. http://www.flickr.com/photos/zombieamelia/4963655331/lightbox/ I'm not after having a totally historically accurate reproduction of circus work from this period - what I'd really would love is to see if it's doable to develop these largely lost aspects of historical tattooing into something that works in the modern world. Proper historically based tattoos but really for women, almost as if the sideshow world had continued on providing Dietzel then Sailor Jerry then ... with colleagues who had made flash that had then been further developed over the years. 'scuse me while I try to invent a history that never was.. :confused: - - - Updated - - - Also - any tips on which other 'names' I should be looking into would be grand!

Geweldig - had al zo'n vermoede. Is ook erg on-engels om er mee aan te komen. Goed dat je het zegt over de eerste keer ook, had bedacht dat ik cakejes mee zo nemen (ik bak graag) maar inderdaad waarschijnlijk beter van niet! Naar 10 jaar ben ik nog steeds niet volledig ingeburgerd, schijnt. Bedankt! By the way, do you happen to know anything about the history of european tattooing than you could add to this? : http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/general-tattoo-discussion/4527-circus-tattooing-charlie-wagner-et-al-germany-connection-anyone.html#post74361?

Thank you :) Wij mogen hier het niet echt over geld hebben, dus ff in het Nederlands, hoe zit het met tips hier - deze mensen zijn vooral van de VS (denk ik) en doen dat altijd, waar dan ook. Het lijkt me ook respectvol en gepast om een goede tip te geven maar als het niet gebruikelijk is in NL sta ik liever niet voor idioot bij het afrekenen...

My research into the tattooed ladies of yesteryear, botany in tattooing and the historical basis of truly feminine tattooing (WRT WTF I want on my skin and via trying at ascertain the names of the various styles) has brought me to Charlie Wagner but I'm a nosy bint and always want more information. There seems to be some evidence of (much of) the circus tattooing tradition having come over fro Germany but I'm having trouble finding and following the threads. This lady, who I now know to be Jean Carroll an ex-(genuine)bearded lady who had her beard removed and tattoos applied for the love of a contortionist, has been one of main my references and inspirations for the style I'm after since before I found you lovely lot or had the foggist of information about the history of tattoo. Turns out she was tattooed by Charlie Wagner. Take a peek between the figurative work. This lady, another long standing inspiration, turns out to not only be a circus artist and Americas first female tattooist but Maud Wagner the wife of Charlie Wagner. See palm trees and botanical work on the arms. So, yeah, looking further I found this lovey example of his work including really rather botanically correct 'growing' roses, some primroses and few other bits. The use of negative space seems to be beginning to develop. I also found this old flash (no idea of date or artist, maybe 40's) with fabulous botanical poppies. I must admit I'm most happy to find genuine historical references to follow up my gut feeling that there must have been more flowers included in design at some point in tattoo history and that they probably looked rather like the work of the early botanists (specifically Basillus Besler and others from the 17th and 18th century). So, yeah, I'm after any information that's to had about this period in tattoo history in America and I'd love it if there was anything anyone could tell me about European tattooing pre/during this period. Anyone?

^ that.

He's just put up photos of those two finished off - in case you should be interested. http://instagram.com/willem666#

Horribly embarrassed myself again! Ho hum. I'm rather confused about the plethora of terms used for the various styles - there seem to be so many more terms than styles, can be overwhelming to the uninitiated. So, yes. I mean, old fashioned black and grey realism with a touch of Old School (which I take to mean Sailor Jerry like stuff).

Yeah, I there's quite a lot of Traditional American influences in what I'm after. Some Old School too. I'd like a cohesive set of tattoos from 3/4 sleeve length to shoulder (one or two of which will deal with the scarring) but nothing dipping down the chest or onto my back, because, indeed, I'd like to keep the space open for later. I don't think I'm up for a single piece over the whole area, I like well placed negative space too much and the density and detail that it seems I'll need over the scaring is too heavy a style of work for me to want to carry right across my skin. I've been brewing this for at least 10 years, hopefully that's time enough... WRT Denmark - that's not doable for me. I'm up for future work in the UK but I'd this arm done by a single artist.

Crikey, those are stunning! What I eventually end up with will be largely down to what Willem designs TBH, I've got quite a bit of annoyingly placed scarring that needs to be covered, a bunch of references and an open mind.

Here is a link to instagram of the chap I'm seeing Instagram - anything anybody has to say about his work would be greatly appreciated! I was thinking of some of the tattoos in black and grey and some colour rather than adding hints of colour to a large black and grey piece. It is indeed his black, grey and red pieces that have got me thinking about this.

Bless! I fear you have misunderstood. I like the way tattoos develop and change with time, that's a lot of the point of having them (for me). Using a(ny) colour which would need to be touched up with time (to keep the design balanced) would spoil the natural aging process of the tattoo, as far as I'm concerned.

So, even with those caveats, there are no sweeping generalisations that can be made? I've gathered that white doesn't last well at all and that 'if it's not bold, it wont hold' but surely there's more to be found out? I'm seeing Willem at Bunker Tattoo in Breda (Netherlands), I linked to his instagram profile on my introduction thread and people seemed to think his work was to an acceptable level. I think he's about my age (mid 30's) or a bit younger so he wont have have very, very old work of his I can look at... Thanks - I've been reading that one already :) - - - Updated - - - I like this sort of 'dusty' colouring a lot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/land_camera/9313285338/and http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/attachments/tattoo-designs-books-flash/4581d1300289228-rose-tattoos-hear-rose-mandala-tattoo-thomas-hooper-february-10-2011-003.jpg Any thoughts on that? I think b&g is probably safest when it comes down to. I always wear factor 50 sunscreen anyway, but still.

I'll be having my first tattoo(s) in a few weeks and I'm a bit of a research junkie. He's wanting to do the design and lining at our first meeting so, to me, it seems like a good idea to be as prepared as possible! I'm thinking of just sticking to black and grey, however I think I'm open to using some colour if the tattooist recommends it. Can anyone tell me which colours are likely to last best (assuming excellent sun protection is used)? I've tried the search function but haven't found anything about this - maybe I'm doing it wrong.

<shudder> You think so? Well, each to their own I suppose.

Yes, certainly! Since I've been on here I'm afraid I've got the bug somewhat but there will definitely be no birdshot tattooing going on (unless that's what they advise for some reason). I'm not sure on the colour front - I'm thinking I want black and grey but I'm open to some (or full) colour if that's what my artist thinks will bring out the best in what he designs. Can you tell me anything about colour longevity? Looking at old photos, red, blue and green seem to be lasting well but I've really not looked into it properly at all.

In my hysteria I forgot to thank you for the link to Kim Anh Nguyen - sorry about that! I like her work a lot and there's a bearded lady somewhere on her facebook page that I adore. Short and easy journey to Amsterdam from here too. mmm.

Thank you. I'm sure you're right!

See, before I came on here, i had in mind to take a selection of old prints and maybe a photo or two of the old painted ladies and just say "I fancy a mix between these prints, those ladies and new, old school, wadda you think?" However, the reaction to doing basically that at the start of this thread seemed to result in a deal of confusion. - - - Updated - - - x post. Fab. Thank you!

:D Yes. That. I want him (or whoever end up doing it) to have a tonne of input but, the thing is, if I can't concisely show / explain what I'm after he stands no chance, surely? What I had envisioned seems to be a blend of 3 styles (17th c. botany / old fashioned 'stiff' realism / old school) which should be eminently doable, but for which I'm not finding examples beyond the original botanical drawings and the odd tattoo that has some elements of what I'm after. Is that really enough?