MsRad

i actually think a protest isn't a bad idea.

i don't really want to do it alone (because there's more power in numbers at this type of thing), but according to the map, there appears to be a regional office in the bay area, and one for sure in Los Angeles...

I could understand if I asked for a review on a $10 tattoo gun from china or a dodgy how to tattoo guide.

please realize that this is EXACTLY what you did. you asked for a review of a dodgy how to dvd. if your wife isn't learning about tattooing from a DVD, why would you expect anyone else on here that's worth a damn to have not done the same as her?

Thank you ! That makes sense. The guy my wife is working with has lots of machines, and he calls it his tattoo graveyard, and he has my wife breaking down machines and putting together again. But we do not have a tattoo machine at home, so I will ask him for an old one to play about with, he's a friend so that parts easy.

i said this right at the beginning. i don't know what took you so long to catch on to the idea, and why you were so caught up on buying that damn dvd. had you just posted this before, i'm sure this long, drug-out, butthurt argument session could have been avoided.

Funny, just as I logged on I saw an adwords advert in the top right hand corner of the forum...

Tattoo Machine Gun

Tattoo Gun Price From $8.12- $52.99 Big Selection & Free Shipping

Tmart.com: To Be the Best Mart for Cheap Items You Want.

I wonder if they sell dvd's.

Anyway, my original question was innocent, so if Scott or anyone is offended than I am happy to apologise.

I came here to discuss, read, view and learn more about tattoos, not to argue moot points.

the point isn't moot if it effects half the member's liveliehoods, even if it's indirectly.

also, LST does not get to choose the google ads in the top bar. google creates this without any input (i see this all the time on vegan blogs, where non-vegan items are being advertised in the same fashion). i'll bet that the reason why they had to add advertising to the site was to keep it free, as i'm sure we're eating up a lot of digital space as it is, and we're still growing.

MsRad, to be honest I was just browsing Ebay and found the listing for the DVD, it had no real info but seemed interesting. My wife is a tattoo apprentice, tattoo machines are expensive, I like fiddling with tools and machines,why would I not want to know more about them?

I thought I would come on here and see if anyone knew anything about the DVD ?

As I mentioned I have no interest in making machines. While this is Scotts forum, I am sure he is far from concerned about my interest in the workings of a machine and I know the thought of me cornering the market will not be keeping him awake at night.

As for free torrents - well that is not really my thing, I know artists who rip of flash, and dvds and books, but I have to much respect for the industry and the artists, but if you can pm me the link to the ebay listing I would appreciate it, I am in Ireland and found nothing in Europe that was not brand new and expensive.

If you're so interested in learning about something, then why not just ask the person who your wife is apprenticing under? that would cost a lot less than a DVD, and all it will hurt you is your butt if they say "it's none of your fucking business!"

free torrents may not be your thing, but you apparently have no problem supporting someone who appears to be ripping off the industry. again, there's a reason why certain things are kept secret and there's already too many shitty fish in this sea.

while you're correct that you're not keeping Scott up late at night, your point of discussion is pretty disrespectful in my humble opinion. i'm sure our discussion tonight or on Saturday will be pretty lively, and i'm curious to see what he posts in here.

and lastly, don't expect me to help you out with this. i'm not in favor of you buying that dvd and i'm certainly not doing your dirty work for you. if you don't like the replies you're receiving here, then don't make inane posts. you should know by now that people on this board are very opinionated, and that most of the professionals and enthusiasts on here don't take too kindly to posts in which hacks or leeching are involved. you can keep searching on your own if this is the road you want to travel down.

while i'm not a tattoo artist, from a customer's standpoint, i really, really, REALLY enjoy a good quality matte print. and by matte, i don't mean pearl. just my $.02.

Why do people feel the need to be smart asses about everything? Jeez, its not like I am going to start selling the bloody things on ebay?

ding! ding! ding! we have a winner!

you might not, but this is a public forum, and others will.

also, it only took me a bit of googling to find a free torrent for the DVD you're asking about, and a copy for almost half the cost of the price you posted. if you're really interested, i'm sure there's a used copy floating around on Amazon or Ebay for much less.

also, you do realize that you asked a question about a DVD that explains how to build machines on a forum started by one of the best machine builders in the US right?

do you really want to learn the "secrets" of a tattoo machine from a DVD? honestly, those "secrets" exist for a reason, and are best kept to those who get their hands dirty building them. if you, or your wife, or whoever wants to know about the different parts of a machine, it's probably best to ask in person, to an artist you know or trust(or in the case of your wife, to the person/shop who's apprenticing her). and if it's about maintenance, i'm sure those who have actually made the machine can give you tips on how to best clean and take care of it.

learning anything about tattooing from a dvd or online course feels a bit like replying to one of those ad's that used to be on the back of MAD magazine, where you could enter a drawing test to win free drawing lessons and a certificate stating you won. just because you can draw cartoon bear or turtle doesn't make you an artist.

i'm sure others will chime in on this.

do you really want to learn the "secrets" of a tattoo machine from a DVD? honestly, those "secrets" exist for a reason, and are best kept to those who get their hands dirty building them. if you, or your wife, or whoever wants to know about the different parts of a machine, it's probably best to ask in person, to an artist you know or trust(or in the case of your wife, to the person/shop who's apprenticing her). and if it's about maintenance, i'm sure those who have actually made the machine can give you tips on how to best clean and take care of it.

learning anything about tattooing from a dvd or online course feels a bit like replying to one of those ad's that used to be on the back of MAD magazine, where you could enter a drawing test to win free drawing lessons and a certificate stating you won. just because you can draw cartoon bear or turtle doesn't make you an artist.

i'm sure others will chime in on this.

would anyone be interested in meeting up to see this?

i think it all comes down to this

no matter how much money anyone has, celebrities are just regular morons like everyone else, and in general the public can not determine between a good and a bad tattoo...

people don't give a fuck about who they are getting tattooed by because they think all tattooers are created equal.

also i can't believe no one's posted this piece of amazingness

i give to you, Gucci Mane in all his icy glory

oh this was posted, just not in this thread. there was a lengthy discussion about it a while back.

JoKno

I may be wrong but your post sounds like you feel somewhat entitled.

---- best shop wants two years of art training

While art school is not a necessity, a lack of ability can often be seen in a portfolio.

Do you think this is an unreasonable request?

----next best shops wanted $5000 and 2 years of unpaid training time

Do you think they should just teach you at their expense and supply you with equipment free of cost and then allow you to practice on their customers -- doing substandard work while profiting from it as well?

-----the cheapest wanted $2000 paid in advance

Should they teach you, a stranger, I'm assuming- without any commitment ---- Really? $2000-- how much was your EMT training.

-----next shop said they don't hire apprentices because they just steal everything

You don't think that your walking in to a shop and expecting them to teach you at no expense to you coming and going as you please because of your limited time doing shitty tattoos on their customers amounts to anything but stealing?

-----next, the drunk asleep on the floor

Maybe he was pretending so you would go away?

-----next, flea market guy

You shouldn't be getting any money,YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO TATTOO! Perhaps you expect him to pay for all of your supplies , teach you at no cost - tomorrow- and then give up 1/2 of that 6x9 space that you scoff at?

And last but not least --- the people of the great state of South Carolina have been getting tattooed for years --- do you know how? They drive. They cross county lines.

Perhaps you should go to a university and then law school - ask them if you could attend it for free---- provide legal services while attending and keep all the money you get paid. They can supply your text book,briefs, research material, maybe even a new laptop --- also at no expense to you ---- so that you can get your law degree and rewrite the ordinance in Aiken County!

Sound reasonable? Really?

Deb, i think there's not quite as clear of an understanding about what an apprenticeship entails (as well as conflicting "reports" or testimony) to those of us who are not tattoo artists. i think most people see it as a normal, unpaid internship, where you supply free labor in return for knowledge and experience, or other trade apprenticeships that you don't always have to pay for (especially if they're based on the same internship concept i just mentioned).

while i agree that JoKno's response reads as if he has a sense of entitlement, i also think it's hard to know (and prepare) for what you're getting into if this is the road you're deciding to travel down. even from the experiences he described, there's a range of what is expected from someone who is approaching a shop about becoming an apprentice. it's not like most schools where the fees and tuition are spelled out for you on website so you can spend several months or years saving up the money to attend the school of your choice. instead, it would appear that you approach a shop, ask if they are willing to take on an apprentice, show your portfolio, hear their price (and to be fair, i had no idea you had to pay for an apprenticeship, which is ignorance on my part, but i definitely understand why a shop would charge you essentially tuition), and then if you don't have the money in the bank ($5,000 isn't exactly a small amount), you have to give yourself time to save it, and then hope that the shop is still willing to take you on after you've saved over a period of time. boo fuckin' hoo i guess.

ok, i'm done playing devil's advocate. i dont think tattooing is the best second career choice unless you somehow have an "in" to the industry, or you're good enough to establish yourself artistically and technically right out of the gate. otherwise, it seems like it could be pretty risky economically, but hey, what the fuck do i know? i don't tattoo. also, i'm not trying to argue with you Deb. just thought i'd share a different perspective. i see both sides surrounding this, though i'm leaning towards yours.

also, does the shop not get to keep the money that is spent by the customer when an apprentice is tattooing? that's always been my assumption, but after reading this, i'm guessing it's wrong...

captain obvious right here!

Thats like me and The Royal Tenenbaums. Every time I watch it, I catch a little bit more. And the life aquatic. There is an Easter Egg in the special features where its just Bill Murray trying different excercises with his Zissou Adidas. All he says is "WOW! These are great"

i also share the same sentiment about The Royal Tenenbaums. such a wonderful movie.

The armpit wasn't as terrible as I had built it up to be, but the upper inner thigh was a bastard. The pit is mostly healed (it's a week old tomorrow) but the inner thigh is gnarly.

eeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

My head tattoo done by my own personal scratcher.

No tattoos but he does have some lovely stripes.

i take it he's a tabby wishin' he was a tiger?

My head tattoo done by my own personal scratcher.

No tattoos but he does have some lovely stripes.

i take it he's a tabby wishin' he was a tiger?

Saw Slapstick, Alkaline Trio, and The Lawrence Arms last week. Stoked.

I wish I could go to the Riverboat Gamblers / Off With Their Heads / Dead To Me / Underground Railroad To Candyland / Big Kids show in SF next week...

i keep forgetting about that show Jake! thanks for reminding me!

you'll be fine I'm sure Deb! have fun!

I doubt that he will say anything. Maybe Mario or Nick can shed some light on this.

Cliff won't be talkin' from the grave that's for sure.

I used to care when someone on the internet would rag on me about my art; now I spend more time creating art, less time caring about what people think. If you're going to do it though, do it right and ask someone who knows how like a real-life tattooer in person, preferably while you're getting tattooed. Buy vintage flash books, study and TRACE the images until the style becomes your own, do some research and find the image sources, credit the creators, and draw/paint all the time. Everybody borrows from each other in every field - this documentary is a great summary of that "Everything is a Remix" Most of all, don't apologize for doing something you love; anyone who tries to make you feel bad for that should check themselves and figure out why they feel the need to worry about what someone on the internet is doing. My .02

Kev, i'm not sure who your response is to, but i'm going to reply to it as if it was directed to me (and hopefully that doesn't come off as too narcissistic). As far as my "flash" goes, it's just little drawings i make that remind me of actual flash, and that i picture having together on a sheet with an overall theme (so for the Lucero lyrics, they will be grouped by album). i don't intend on anyone ever getting these designs tattooed, so i'm not too worried about them being functional. i'm not planning on selling them either, though i might gift some of them, so they're really just for my own enjoyment (or friends, family, bands, whoever i think might like receiving one). even if i do sell them, i won't sell them as "sheets of flash" but rather individual pieces (hopefully woodblock or screen prints), so each one would be a separate with an edition. i'm really just playing around with ideas right now and having fun. and the money i'd earn would go right back into getting tattooed, since it would just be extra income.

and as for criticism over the internet, i just don't want to even have to bother with it. i don't like that someone was criticized as a person based on assumptions about who they are, rather having the work critiqued. i always take anything said on the internet with a grain of salt, but i also don't want to have to deal with it. i think it's a pretty natural reaction to want to defend yourself, but it's also something that i just don't have time or the energy to do these days, especially over name calling. i'd rather just keep drawing and getting critiques from friends i know in real life, and leave the internet drama behind.

and on that note, sorry too for all of the parenthesis. they're my best friend when it comes to writing.

i just wanted to clear up why i said (gouge quoted me) the word "outsider". by outsider, i don't mean someone who has no knowledge of the industry, history, or artists involved in tattooing and is therefore not tattooed themselves. what i meant by the word "outsider" is that i am just a customer, not a tattooer (or tattooist, if you prefer). i'll never know what it's like to be a tattoo artist, and i'll never fully understand all the obstacles and problems currently faced by those who work in this industry. i can sympathize, and empathize, but i'm not living it. i'm not experiencing it first hand when it comes to producing tattoos.

also, the flash i draw is stuff i create, not stuff based on other people's designs (or at least not consciously or intentionally). i started a series based on Lucero lyrics, and i've also started working on a portrait series of people i admire (the first drawing being intentionally for Mike Park, though he doesn't know it yet and i won't get to finish it this week as i had hoped) which do have some elements related to tattooing (banners, script, etc.), but there's no way i'd post that stuff on here, and especially not after seeing the reaction Smiling.Politely received.

what makes me mad is that people are reacting without knowing all the facts about someone and their intentions. i know and understand that people feel that their jobs are threatened right now due to a surge in shitty tattoo artists. but putting down people who clearly have some talent and drive is not going to change this, and if anything, i think is backfiring. i know people who just said "fuck it" and have started tattooing out of their homes because of this attitude. a few blocks away, there is a house where several people are doing this nightly. is this what we want to happen? personally, i want to still be able to get tattooed when i'm 65 or 70 years old, and i want to have the same quality of work done as i do now. and that's not going to happen if we just discourage everyone without knowing their intention for wanting to tattoo.

also, as Ursula pointed out, there are many good artists who went to art school and now tattoo. Hell, Mario works with Josh Howard at CTC who went to SAIC and who i know produces stellar work. going to college isn't a bad thing, and just because you have a diploma doesn't make you automatically elitist. i find it hypocritical that it seen as ok to do the opposite based on an assumption of those of us who chose(and in some cases, were forced) to take a different route than those who did not go to college. my parents strongly encouraged me to do well in school, and any talk of anything else other than college (joining the military for example) was highly discouraged (and my father is a naval vet). i know a lot of people weren't raised that way, and that school doesn't come easy for everyone. but i don't think that anyone should have to apologize for the hand of cards that they are dealt in life, and it just so happens in this respect, i was lucky. i bare a reminder of this luck across my chest and heart that i see daily. this is how life is. sometimes we're lucky, and other times we're not.

and also, as Ursula said, there are some tattoo artists that i want to tell to just stick to tattooing and to not paint, because their painting, in my humble opinion, does nothing to speak for the quality of art that they produce on someone's body. now i can't remember who i was looking at, but it was an artists who work i thought was phenomenal (though not my style), and then i saw his paintings and i felt disappointed. but again, if he enjoys painting, then more power to him. his tattoos look great, and opinions on art are all subjective.

anyways, i've wrote enough i've gotta go study for math placement exams as i start down the new road i'm on in life. what i've said may be controversial or other's may disagree, but this is how i feel. i'm willing to discuss or debate all valid points of discussion, but will i not participate in any petty arguments. sorry for any typos, i don't have the attention span to proof read right now.

Almost don't want to jinx em by talking about them. Is that weird..?

in the same boat!

it looks pretty rad for it being your second painting on canvas!

Kev, when are you getting in?

would anyone want to meet up to welcome Kev?

oh and for vegan food, there's a few spots you should try. The neat loaf at Ananda Fuara is amazing (and will give you the whole hippie experience), there's Herbivore which is pretty good, Source, which will give you a different kind of hippie experience (more new age), the Plant Cafe, Cha-ya sushi or Minako (if you want to try vegan sushi), Golden Era for awesome vegan viet/thai insipired food, and of course my favorite burrito spot, Papalotes (maybe not the most authentic, but their refried black beans and salsa rule!). Some of these places also have non-vegan items, but everyone here knows where my votes go on the menu. There's also fancier, more expensive veg places like Greens, Millenium, and Gracias Madre (definitely the cheapest out of the three though).