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The main progress of this weeks session. Is great to see some more colour. Background is now done and it is all colour from now on. :)

Finally back at it. This one from Xam at Seven Doors, taken from Instagram:

I've been tattooed by some super "famous" tattooers and by some people no one's ever heard of. I am very, very wary of a sort of "starfucker' mentality in tattooing. There are so many amazing people that aren't as well known as they should be because maybe their style isn't trendy, or they're not on social media, or they just don't prioritize instagram like others do, or they don't travel to conventions as much, etc. People who are well known only gets you so much. And that one tattooer is more well known than another is not necessarily because they are "better". There is a lot of noise in this subculture, and I am very careful to pay attention to what really turns me on, so to speak, about a tattooer's work, and not get swept up in their name, hype, trendiness, whatever. I had a really good chat about this with a fairly "famous" tattooer recently, who said that while they get a lot of "collector" types coming to them, they can immediately tell the difference between someone seeking them out because they are really psyched on their work, and someone who is more interested in their name and adding it to their list. Apparently there is a pretty big difference in the experience of tattooing these different kinds of people. It was a nice conversation in that I sometimes feel self-conscious when people ask me who my stuff is by, or who I am planning to get tattooed by in the future, and this person was basically like: don't worry. If you are genuine in your enthusiasm, people can tell. If you're a douche and just want to cover yourself in big names, people will know the difference. Our true intentions show through, and it's important to me to connect with a tattooer's work in a very primal way. Basically, to this person, there is an upside and a downside to having a "big name". All of which to say that I think there is an important difference between recognizing, talking about and respecting the work of people who are doing awesome, creative and inspiring things, and getting wrapped up in names and tattoo celebrity. The former is what makes this community so great, but I think the latter is basically poison to any sense of creativity and authenticity. And the line between them can be thin. I also agree with others that the experience of getting a tattoo, or if I can put it in hippie terms, the vibes that go into it, is super important. At this point I am unlikely to get tattooed by someone that I haven't heard about through someone else as being awesome. Instagram photos are not enough.

I have things to say on this thread that will have to wait until I'm done work and have the time to write a proper response, but in the meantime can we try to distinguish between seeing tattoos and seeing pictures of tattoos? Because the two are not the same at all.

got my knee done by matthew houston in amsterdam yesterday: took that instagram picture, can't make my own cause its swollen like a watermelon at the moment. :D

Also: thanks @Pugilist for making some really important points. I'm going to try to look for this looseness that helps tattoos sits well on the body. I for sure don't wish everybody would tattoo like Tony Nilsson, but I guess I have a different standard of how much roughness, for lack of better word, that I like in my tattoos. One thing I learned to see by watching Robert Ryans stuff is that if he cleaned it up (like he probably can) it would lose that vibration that makes it go "aaahhhhhhhh" I agree that pictures are not the ideal way to look at tattoos, far from. In a way tattoos are like graffiti, they belong in real life. I see some fantastic stuff online but it doesn't compare to seeing pieces for real, even pieces objectively not as nice still grabs me more. I often see fantastic tattoos that I don't think I'd be as into if presented like a photo. Real Life rules, ya'll... Edit: to me that what makes tattooing such a strong and interesting art form. It's meant to age with you and to be viewed in all kinds of situations, not to be hanged on a wall in ideal light. For me the net is where I go looking to see the best work, if not visiting a convention. But some of the coolest tattoos I've seen have been on people I met in the metro. I'm happy @Pugilist broke these factors down. I feel we got a bit derailed on a part of what I brought up in the original post but it's been full of insight anyhow. One of the reasons why this forum is such a great place

Yeah, I think the thing some people need to remember is that these days most people seem to get their tattoo info from a format which involves looking at teeny tiny digital pictures, out of context, unhealed, etc. Instagram is basically bullshit for seeing the quality of people's work. If you've ever been lucky enough to see a Horiyoshi III tattoo in person, you would realize how seriously wrong you are. (This is kind of a digression, but what I hate about Instagram is that it ends up prioritizing tattoos that photograph well over tattoos that have soul. I'm going to go like, rearrange my crystals now.)

I'd choose "tattoo mojo" over technical perfection any day. It's like music man... It needs soul! I think Deutsche, Roberts and Horiyoshi's work has plenty, and then some.

Lynch mob on the way. Eddy Deutsche is in my top 5 favorite tattooers of all time. I'm getting to the point where I don't care who has a bigger name or the most Instagram followers. People like Mike Adams and Amanda Wachob have thousands upon thousands of followers but I could care less about their work. (YES, I AM PUBLICLY SHIT TALKING.) I'll take Mike Roper over just about anyone everyday. Edit; I'll also take Joel Long, Mike Dorsey, Andrew Conner, Mike Rennie, Will Lollie, Virginia Elwood, Bart Bingham, John Henry Gloyne, Josh Arment, Dave Regan, Matt Brotka, Katie Davis, Ishmael Johnson, John Rippey, Eric Brooks, Jason Phillips, Carolyn LeBourgeois, Sean Perkinson, Chuck Kuhler, Aaron Coleman, Josh Brown, and a gazillion other people who are well known or completely unknown that kill it constantly. Tattooing is a rich community. There are so many people that do good things that it is impossible to narrow things down like people were able to 20-30-40 years ago. There used to be like 2 conventions a year, and now there is one every weekend. I suppose what I am saying echoes what @CABS had to say. The experience and the radness of the person will trump just about everything. I'm a young tattooer, and I fully realize I'm not very good at this right now, so I will do my best to make sure my friends get a cool experience and can always look at those blownout lines and holidays and smile saying "That was a good day."

This thread really makes me only want to get tattooed by people older than me like Bob Roberts and Eddy Deutsche. I realize it wasn't your original point (I too am wary of the star culture in tattooing) but your misinformed dismissals ('there are limits'!) are so offensive to me that I can't get over it. In the end I realize it comes down to different sensibilities and what I'm looking for in tattoos is obviously very different from yours. BUT, if I can add my 2 cents as a person who's been tattooed by both Eddy Deutsche and Bob Roberts, Eddy is the most 'PMA' guy ever (if that's what you're after). If you're looking for an 'experience' or stories, Eddy and Bob have plenty. The flash at Spotlight has bullet holes. (The fact that the stencil is made from the original flash push pinned on the wall alone makes it almost worth getting the tattoo to be a part of the history.) Nothing 'soft' or 'squiggly' about my Bob Roberts tattoo. There's no question about Eddy's technical ability. I think every respectable tattooer would disagree with you on this point. I think people with 'perfect' tattoos look uptight--not what I'm going for (not interested in putting computer graphics on my body either). Any imperfections will add to its beauty.

What @Iwar said! I think what this is coming down to is a difference in what one is looking for in a tattoo. I am not sure you are 100% getting what I'm trying to say, @mmikaoj . The reason I am bringing instagram into this is because: 1) that tiny format where you are zoomed in on the tattoo and so don't see how it sits on the body, how it looks in natural light, how it moves, how it heals, etc., means that ALL you see is any technical imperfections, which leads to people overvaluing the 'cleanliness' of a tattoo and undervaluing its, well, soul, to keep using that word. The most perfect tattoo is not the most beautiful one. 2) I have been tattooed by several people who tattoo in a "looser" style. This is definitely a matter of taste. What I LOVE about that style is how natural it looks on the skin, like it's always been there, like I was born with it. It feels powerful because of how it moves, how dynamic it is, etc. Social media CANNOT CAPTURE THAT. So all we talk about is shit that's "clean". Whatever. There is a reason why some really technically proficient tattooers choose to loosen up their styles, and that's because of how the tattoos will sit, move, age, etc., on the actual person, not on instagram. That was my point about how we judge people. I am lucky enough to know a tattooer that got a beautiful Horiyoshi III tattoo in the past 2-3 years. When I look at her arm, I do not see any squiggly lines or jacked up shading. His work is so powerful, I just see this amazing tattoo that looks like it was meant to be on her skin. It's bold, elegant and stunning. You don't get the whole story when you look at instagram, and I sure as fuck don't get tattoos so that people can analyze their technical merits on social media.

I can't get past the Eddy Deutsche "lost it" comment.

Getting prepared to depart to the shop... Hoping I have enough time to grab dog food and gatorade before my right arm becomes useless :eek: Also celebrating with a friend that just landed a job later, so post-tattoo cake is in my future. Awwww yeeeeah. I won't be able to post whilst getting tattooed, but I'm just happy to get a tattoo where I don't have to lie down or awkwardly sit and be fidgety.

OK, so this is going to be a bit hard to follow I'm sure.. A few weeks ago I mentioned to Iain Mullen that I wanted to get some kind of geometric dotworky type of tattoo and I wondered who he thought I should get it from. After just a second he said "Xed Le Head! He's the originator of that whole style". And I thought: Yeah, that would be cool! Out of this short trade of words came some thoughts that later began to formulate. I easily find myself soft to the idea of getting tattooed by well known tattooers. I'm not the type of person that show of my tattoos or brag about them to friends and strangers. Pants drop and shirt goes off in tattoo shops when tattooers show interest in seeing what I have, but that's about it. Still I have some notion of wanting to get work from big name tattooers that I admire. Of course the style of the tattoo goes first, but even among tattooers of "equal" skill and in the same style I'd easily choose the one that seems most well respected in the craft. If the tattooer an interesting character it's also a big plus. I gues it has to do with the added "value" of the tattoo: the circumstances around getting it, the shop or convention, the mode that day and the person making the tattoo. I've always by interested in people so I want original folks to mark me too. I also have this belief that people who spent a lot of time and energy doing their craft will have a very refined taste. That their added years and position "in the game" will leave me with a tattoos that I will learn to appriciate even more as time passes, as I too go deeper into the culture. There are limits however. I wouldn't get a tattoo by Horiyoshi III or even someone like Bob Roberts or Eddy Deutsche, I think they lost it a long time ago. (Come on, send a lynch mob..) I was set up to get tattooed by Henk last autumn in Amsterdam but I don't think I care about it anymore. Getting heavily tattooed is a hard process, there is only so much skin to cover. I also think sometimes about WHY we go to the lenghts of getting tattooed by people from across seas for example. Hopefully we can be honest to ourselves and do it because we want this particular person to leave their mark on us and grace us with art, and not do it be part of some "I got tattooed by the Smith ST-crew club". (I got a tattoo by Eli Quinters by the way...) But what if everyone who wanted a particular style tattoo saved up all their money and went to the master of this style? Everybody. Would someone like Jondix have the chance to blossom if we all went to Mike The Athens? Would the tattoo world not have El Carlo if people where picky enough to only see El Monga? Maybe we should be less elitist and let the small dogs get their chance a bit more, to help push the art further? A tattooer that I know told me about one of his visible tattoos. It was made by one of the absolutely biggest names in this part of the culture, someone I bet a lot of you look up too beacause of his art (so do I). But this experience was so bad, the big shot tattooer turned out to be really rude and bossy/macho-y and this was one of the reasons that this guy now gets tattooed by friends almost strictly. And this is someone who loves tattoos, who looks up to Theo Mindell as his favorite tattooer and who really struggle to improve his own work. After all it's just tattoos, and if the process is not fun for you, why bother chasing "collectors items"? For a while I was really into getting only one piece per tattooer but this story made me loosen up a bit and now I get more work from people that I got a good vibe with. I kind of want to get something from Jelle Neleman mostly because he seems like such a PMA dude. His work is really nice but I can name at least 5 tattooers that do the same tattoos. I don't know.. I hope you got something out of this rambling. Feel free to write down your thoughts and associations! Bless

I want to get tattooed by people who do tattoos that I can feel in my gut, which is to say that when I see an artist's tattoos, or look through their portfolio or on their instagram or whatever (though more and more for me I want to see the tattoos, and not just pictures of them) I want to have a deeper reaction than just thinking that it's a good looking tattoo, and I want to have a good time getting those tattoos. I've been tattooed by some "big names" and I've travelled a fair bit to get tattooed, and to be honest, I feel a little self-conscious about it because--and maybe this is only in my head--I fear coming across as somebody who buys into that kind of almost celebrity culture that sometimes goes along with tattoo collecting that I think @Pugilist articulated very well. Because for me it's not about that and it was never about that. I just want to get rad tattoos.

Proper nutrition is very important for healing any wound. Add some kibbles and bits to your diet, you'll be healed up in 2 days.

poor quality instagram photos will forever tarnish horiyoshi iii's legacy. #h2ocean #h2oceanproteam #officialh2ocean

Definitely talk to your tattooer about this; when you go and consult for a tattoo on your back, tell them you'd like to keep the option of a backpiece in the future open, and LISTEN to their advice if they say what you want is or is not doable with that consideration. Backs are different from other body parts. A pieced together sleeve looks kind of cool, whereas a back is such a huge expanse of space that a pieced together back is kind of a mess. I had two tattoos on my back when I started my backpiece. I was on my way to piecing things together when my tattooer flat out told me that if I kept adding smaller tattoos to my back, it would eventually looks insane, and I was much better off thinking about a larger, more coherent piece. I am SO GLAD I listened to her. Working around the existing pieces we had already was tough and involved a lot of compromise on the design. I am thrilled with it and wouldn't have it any other way, because they're my tattoos, and I love them and I don't really care about the design challenge of the whole thing. But while I know my tattooer was happy with how things turned out, she did see it as a backpiece full of compromises due to the space limitations, and would have been even happier with nothing to work around. So all of that to say: yes, you can get a very cool backpiece with tattoos already on there (if you're careful), although that will limit your options a lot. But no, you probably can't just get a backpiece through adding a piece here and there. Unless of course, your tattooer and you have discussed this and are putting together something intentionally coherent piece by piece, like what @Fala mentioned.

Hmm... In another thread you recently wrote that you're new to tattoos, so posting a bold statement like that is kind of odd. I'm not saying you don't have great local tattooers, I just thought that was a really weird thing to write.

Oh I agree, @mtlsam, don't want to diss on clean tattoos! I more wanted to point out that some ways of looking at tattoos privilege that over everything else, which is a shame. Lots of very precise tattooers also make stuff that's powerful and cool and amazing to look at, of course!! Something I wanted to add to my previous rants was that I don't think "looser" tattooing is any less technical. Paying attention to how an image flows and knowing just how much to put into it and how much to leave out is as "technical" as perfect lines, if you ask me. Both take tremendous ability and vision, and they are of course not mutually exclusive.

I'm digging this thread! Some of the most interesting and passionate replies I have seen in a while. Also a touch of controversy, oh my. I think that this distinction being made between "clean" and "loose" tattoos is interesting as well. I for example have some of both styles side by side on my body. I find that both types are soulful. For me it's not a question of the precision of a line that dictates this factor. I believe in my case the way that the tattoos were done was quite deliberate. My chest of a panther vs. snake by Bailey Robinson is as clean as they come. Not a dot or squiggle out of place, but still powerful. My gorilla rose ribs by Chad Koeplinger is only as precise as a mega spread liner and serious whip shade action applied at warp speed allows. Not crisp, but bold for miles. I love and wouldn't change either. I think that many images can be successfully interpreted in many ways. The main importance being only for the wearer. Please keep your thoughts coming.

I think that you bring up a few interesting points that can make a person think about their motivation in tattoo "collecting". There are likely many reasons why certain tattooers become big names. Skill in their art and skill in their tattooing not being the sole factors. Getting tattooed has always been a fun experience for me. Sharing stories, geeking out about technical things that fuel my curiosity, talking food, all are things that add to the experience. In the end I want to have an awesome tattoo, but I also would like for the process to have been a pleasant one. A lot of what fuels my interest in certain artists is the opportunity to see their body of work. I get psyched on cool pictures. I'm certain that there are many great artists who I have never heard of, because they choose not to get their stuff out there. They too may offer a great experience, but perhaps I'll never know. Finally, I think that being the inventor of a style or technique gives someone a certain cachet, but it doesn't mean that others who put in the time aren't working at or above the originators level. It might get difficult if people only got certain things from certain tattooers, more so than is already the case. Imagine the wait lists if you had to go to Todd Noble for all lady heads, or Stuart Cripwell for all moths!

I'm down to meet up, but I'm in Fremont. Perhaps we can hook up in the South Bay after your Monmon cat. Otherwise, if there's a larger LST group meeting up, I can see if I can make it work. - I don't know if there's a current exhibit, but ATAK SF might be worth checking out. - The Exploratorium is fun for kids. - I haven't checked it out yet, but all tattoo heads love skulls! There's an exhibit at California Academy of Sciences. - Before or after Blackheart, you should check out Clarion Alley for a free exhibit of some badass graffiti. You should also grab a burrito while you're over there!! - If you're into views, I like Twin Peaks, Treasure Island, and Bakers Beach. - Mitchell's ice cream is pretty close to Skull and Sword... nice reward after suffering some bodily harm. - Bars are all over the place. I'd probably ask your tattooers or just wander around and find one that meets your preferences. Enjoy!

Don't feed the troll. This is too good a thread to derail with BS.

So, uh... what's the name of this local shop and where is it??

OMG can we please start that rumour?

Tattoo veterans that have been doing it for decades have so much experience, that it's safe to say they know how to make a tattoo. Which is why I seek out those tattooers. But the new generation tattooer need to get experience somehow too, so I like to seek out new tattooers as well. At the end of the day, it all depends on the bed-side manner/if they are an asshole or not. I collect predominantly traditional, so if there are ten tattooers doing very similar work, then the customer experience is what will make one tattooer stand out from the rest. Plus, I would much rather get several tattoos from lesser known folks, than one tattoo from a "name."

Funny you mention Jondix and Mike The Athens. I'm kind of new to tattoos. I am drawn to that style. I think the 1st work I saw in that style was Tom Hooper. He spent some time in NYC and I believe influenced other NYC area artists. Out of all of them, I liked Hooper's work the most. Then I saw some work by Jondix. I liked his work more than Hooper's. Found out Jondix and Hooper worked together. Saw many other artists doing very good work in that style, but something about Jondix' work stood out for me. Then I found out Jondix was influenced by Mike The Athens. For me, I like Jondix and Mike's work the most. If I lived in Europe, I would definitely seek them out. Not because of their name, but because I can see and appreciate the differences in their work over others that do the same style.

Here's my left lower leg done with Matt Deverson from Progression tattoo in Adelaide Australia and the top of my right done with Matt (Dr Claw) from Diamond Club

Welcome! You're not going to find information about the technical aspects of tattooing here, but there's still a lot of great information here in the various threads, and especially in the tattoo artist interview videos. Be sure to watch those, they're the best part of this site. I got tattooed at Electric Tattoo in New Jersey fairly recently and when I was there Robert Ryan was talking about the Nepal tattoo convention and how much he likes it. He works it, I'm pretty sure Chad Koeplinger works it or has worked it in the past, and I think there are a handful of other artists who travel to it. Anyway, Robert was also talking about how impressed he was with how tattooing has developed in Nepal since he started going to the convention, so maybe check that out and get to meet and talk to other like-minded folk in your part of the world.

Ordered another book and scored a Kapala. THIS IS WHY I GET TATTOOED ONCE EVERY COUPLE YEARS!!!!!!!

@Iwar I also suggest California Academy of Sciences. My son is 3 and a half and loves that place. We live about 2 hours away from SF, but he always asks to go there and the SF zoo. I actually will be at State of Grace on the 18th (what time will you be there?) also my wife and I will be at Blackheart on the 22nd and I would be down to meet up and hang out for a while why my wife gets tattooed.

Got started on the back again after taking a break for the summer. Finished the upper background and started on some color to my pleasant surprise!

I had a poetry prof in university a million years ago who said something on the first day of class that I think applies to so many other things in life, and maybe it's relevant here, I dunno. He was addressing the perception of many freshmen that learning how to scan poetry, learning the rules of it, didn't matter, when so many of them took a shine to poetry after discovering e.e. cummings or Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock -- in the case of the latter, mistakenly believing that it was free verse, which it actually isn't. But that mistake underlined his point, which is this: until you're familiar with the rules of a thing, until you understand the hows and whys of that thing, which often entails becoming familiar with its major players through history...you can't really meaningfully deviate from those rules. He said that he thinks it's important to break rules, but it's even more important to understand why you're breaking them when you do it. You start with the foundations, and then your choices have context and meaning, whatever choices you make afterward. Maybe this doesn't apply to tattooing, I don't know; I'm still learning...but I find that most people with knowledge of a subject will assume that a new person discarding the fundamentals of any given thing are doing themselves or the thing a disservice, for lack of having the knowledge to know any better. Maybe that's not always true; maybe a new person can just intuit those things and make excellent choices blindly. It does seem rather more unlikely, though.

I wouldn't say that man. You're just new around here. Alot of us are not new to tattoos at all and we spend alot of our time around them. I think honestly, if we knew a little more about you, and the things you like and don't like, that would be a much broader and less trolley approach. I've been tattooed by Eli Quinters, like a lot of people on this forum (and people here have been tattooed by Shige and Horiyoshi 3) so it's a little like slapping us (and some really rich tradition and history) in the face.

@Pugilist yes, yes we can. This may be more fun than watching new people "set in" tattoos. @SeeSea I think either will work, I just prefer the taste of the dry food. The little carrot bits are my favorite

I understand what you are saying. I'm with scubaron on this one in that I'm still newish to tattoos, and I'm really into Jondix and Mike the Athens' work right now (doodoodoodoo... weird) I don't much care about the name so much as whether or not the particular tattooer's work speaks to me, if the work speaks to me then going out of my way isn't a problem. The visions have to mesh, no matter who is doing the tattooing (famous, not, etc.)

Update: Had to push it back to March since December is just too soon for me to do it right, get commitments, get the website up, etc. Website will be up hopefully next week and we'll take it from there!

I'm considering getting a tattoo on my back, but I'm undecided on location and subject. A lot of different possibilities going through my mind. Sword, dragon, tiger, etc.. The back is such a large area and considered a prime spot. I'm not looking for a full back piece at this time, but who knows what I will want down the road. Are there certain areas that are good or bad if I will expand in the future ? Shoulder blade, side, center, top, etc. ?

Definitely gotta get a tattoo by Xam - so good! I'm yet to visit Seven Doors.

Meeting with Will on Sunday for a consult. Can't wait to hear what he comes up with. Time to start saving my pennies ;-).

Marius Meyer was kind enough to let me shoot some video while he put the finishing touches on my friend @Wilhell's back piece. Hope you enjoy it! (Sorry German LSTers! This unfortunately won't play in your country due to the licensing restrictions of the soundtrack)

Hope your budget isn't tapped out for the rest of the year after that one tattoo..

Thanks for the tip @Pleadco! I'll look into that. Oh, and I wouldn't trade it for the world, haha! Been looking forward to this for almost a year now. Are you planning on going to the convention while you're already in the neighborhood? - - - Updated - - - Bummer! I would have loved to meet up and check out your amazing tattoos in person. I'm sure we'll get another opportunity sometime in the future though :) Thanks for the car rental tips by the way! I'm joining the monmon club.

Let's be clear: neither getting tattooed nor not getting tattooed helps to assert you as an "individual" who is outside some kind of norm. Subcultures are cultures too.

I get nervous when anyone young gets heavily tattooed fast. Personalities change drastically as you mature

Now I finally understand your username.

Yeah, going all three days is EXHAUSTING. It was really a lot of fun though, got a great tattoo, saw a lot of great tattoos, showed my butt to people I hold in very high esteem, hung out with friends, made new friends, and all around had a great time. It's weekends like these that make me feel really fortunate to have a part, however small, in this crazy tattoo thing. Here's a picture from our LST brunch meetup on Saturday: I've probably said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, but y'all are a great bunch of people: smart, funny, interesting, fun to hang out with. I'm proud to call you friends.

I have all different styles all mixed together on all different body parts! Where ever something fit from a specific artist or where ever they wanted to place it is where it got tattooed on me! there are plenty of things you can do to fill in and tie it all together! I personally like how my coverage has evolved over the years and with so many tattoos on me I have people crawling around on the floor half of the time trying to see all of them! It's not like you look at it and see one big scene or piece......it's like people look at it and see something new they didn't notice the last time they saw me! People who look at me all the time are always pointing to a tattoo I have had 10 years and asking if it is a new tattoo even though they had to have seen it before! That's my take on this....