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Sounds like the biggest issue you're having is that other people at your office can get away with having tattoos and you can't. Or you feel you can't because you sacrificed a nose ring and hair color to get where you are today. Which is great that you've made it to a respectable position, but why go after others? Without getting into it too much, I agree that there is a time and place for everything. And that a large, corporate company isn't the place to go "showing off" tattoos, and most likely, these are younger folks who feel the need to assert their own unique individuality and feelings, etc. But looking at it from the perspective of someone who has to wear long sleeves/pants to cover all of my own, when I wear a short sleeve shirt, I am not "showing off." I am trying to not sweat my balls off, Gold Bond or no, on a 100 degree day. If a woman with tattoos wears a dress that happens to show them off, I probably wouldn't think, "What a slut, flaunting her tits and tattoos..." (Well, depends on the lady..) Anyway, most people in this world are stuck in offices for one reason or another, and I do think it's appropriate to dress accordingly. But it sounds like you're the one with the issue here. If the female with the chest tattoo was a problem, they wouldn't have hired her. Maybe you don't have anything against tattoos, but it sounds like you've definitely got something against people with tattoos. If you want tattoos, too, go get 'em. I bet you could keep them covered nearly all of the time if you wanted.

i'm an accountant and everyday i wear long sleeve button-up shirts to work to keep my arms covered. i am not sure if there is a tattoo policy here but i dont need to know. i'm not interested in showing my tattoos at work anyway, i'm totally ok with keeping them covered without needing to be asked. if i wanted to "be noticed" or "express" myself in the office, i'll just do that by trying to do a great job at work.

Its a personal choice. I choose not to expose my tattoos. While they could not fire me for them, I certainly feel the old guard would not appreciate them a lot and it would limit my ability to make more money. I work to make money and feed my family, not to express myself. I wish I had a career that would allow me to express myself and be free, but that just is not my reality and I have come to piece with it. The major decision makers in corporate America these days are probably in their late 50's or 60's. Once they retire and the new guard take over, I don't think this will be as big of an issue as there has been a huge change in culture. Until then I will play it safe and keep making some loot without being judged, whether it is legit or not. Kudos to those who don't care about the judgement.

So here is a rundown of the various tattoo regulations, in regards to the United States Armed Forces. ARMY AR 670-1: Para 1-8E: e. Tattoo policy (1) Tattoos or brands anywhere on the head, face, and neck above the class A uniform collar are prohibited. (2) Tattoos or brands that are extremist, indecent, sexist, or racist are prohibited, regardless of location on the body, as they are prejudicial to good order and discipline within units. (a) Extremist tattoos or brands are those affiliated with, depicting, or symbolizing extremist philosophies, organizations, or activities. Extremist philosophies, organizations, and activities are those which advocate racial, gender or ethnic hatred or intolerance; advocate, create, or engage in illegal discrimination based on race, color, gender, ethnicity, religion, or national origin; or advocate violence or other unlawful means of depriving individual rights under the U.S. Constitution, Federal, or State law (see para 4–12, AR 600–20). (b) Indecent tattoos or brands are those that are grossly offensive to modesty, decency, or propriety; shock the moral sense because of their vulgar, filthy, or disgusting nature or tendency to incite lustful thought; or tend reasonably to corrupt morals or incite libidinous thoughts. © Sexist tattoos or brands are those that advocate a philosophy that degrades or demeans a person based on gender, but that may not meet the same definition of “indecent.” (d) Racist tattoos or brands are those that advocate a philosophy that degrades or demeans a person based on race, ethnicity, or national origin. (3) Counseling requirements. AR 670–1 • 3 February 2005 5 (a) Commanders will ensure soldiers understand the tattoo policy. (b) For soldiers who are not in compliance, commanders may not order the removal of a tattoo or brand. However, the commander must counsel soldiers, and afford them the opportunity to seek medical advice about removal or alteration of the tattoo or brand. (4) If soldiers are not in compliance with the policy, and refuse to remove or alter the tattoos or brands, commanders will: (a) Ensure the soldier understands the policy. (b) Ensure the soldier has been afforded the opportunity to seek medical advice about removal or alteration. © Counsel the soldier in writing. The counseling form will state that the soldier’s refusal to remove extremist, indecent, sexist, or racist tattoos or brands anywhere on the body, or refusal to remove any type of tattoo or brand visible in the class A uniform (worn with slacks/trousers), will result in discharge. (5) Existing tattoos or brands on the hands that are not extremist, indecent, sexist, or racist, but are visible in the class A uniform (worn with slacks/trousers), are authorized. (6) Finality of determination. (a) Recruiting battalion commanders or recruiting battalion executive officers (0–5 or above) will make initial entry determinations that tattoos or brands comply with this policy for Active Army and Army Reserve soldiers. This authority will not be delegated further. (b) Unit commanders or unit executive officers will make determinations for soldiers currently on active duty. This authority will not be delegated further. © Recruiting and retention managers (O–5 or above) will make initial entry determinations that tattoos or brands comply with this policy for National Guard soldiers. This authority will not be delegated further. (d) Professors of military science (O-5 or above) will make initial entry determinations that tattoos or brands comply with this policy for ROTC cadets. This authority will not be delegated further. (e) The Director of Admissions will make initial entry determinations that tattoos or brands comply with this policy for the U.S. Military Academy cadets. This authority will not be delegated further. (f) Determinations will be fully documented in writing and will include a description of existing tattoos or brands and their location on the body. A copy of the determination will be provided to the soldier. Unless otherwise directed by the Army Deputy Chief of Staff, G-1, these determinations are final. If a tattoo or brand is discovered to violate this policy after an initial determination has been documented, commanders must submit requests for an exception to policy or for discharge through the soldier’s chain of command to the MACOM for approval. Appeals to the MACOM decision will be forwarded to the Army Deputy Chief of Staff, G-1 for decision. (7) Soldiers may not cover tattoos or brands in order to comply with the tattoo policy. NAVY Navy Uniform Regulations Chapter 2 -- Grooming Standards Section 2 -- Personal Appearance Article 2201.7 7. TATTOOS/BODY ART/BRANDS. Four Criteria will be used to determine whether tattoos/body art/brands are permitted for Navy personnel: content, location, size and cosmetic. a. Content. Tattoos/body art/brands located anywhere on the body that are prejudicial to good order, discipline, and morale or are of a nature to bring discredit upon the naval service are prohibited. For example, tattoos/body art/brands that are obscene, sexually explicit, and or advocate discrimination based on sex, race, religion, ethnic, or national origin are prohibited. In addition, tattoos/body art/brands that symbolize affiliation with gangs, supremacist or extremist groups, or advocate illegal drug use are prohibited. b. Location. No tattoos/body art/brands on the head, face, neck, or scalp. The neck area for purposes of this regulation is any portion visible when wearing a crew neck T-shirt or open collar uniform shirt. In addition, otherwise permissible tattoos/body art/brands on the torso area of the body shall not be visible through white uniform clothing. c. Size. Individual tattoos/body art/brands exposed by wearing a short sleeve uniform shirt shall be no larger in size than the wearer’s hand with fingers extended and joined with the thumb touching the base of the index finger. Tattoos/body art/brands that exceed size criteria are waiverable provided they do not violate the content and/or location criteria. d. Cosmetic. This regulation does not prohibit cosmetic tattooing to correct medical conditions requiring such treatment. For the purpose of this regulation, cosmetic tattooing refers to medical or surgical procedures conducted by licensed, qualified medical personnel. AIR FORCE Tattoos/Brands (Unauthorized- content) Tattoos/brands anywhere on the body that are obscene or advocate sexual, racial, ethnic, or religious discrimination are prohibited in and out of uniform. Tattoos/brands that are prejudicial to good order and discipline or that are of a nature that tends to bring discredit upon the Air Force are prohibited in and out of uniform. Tattoos that are commonly associated with gang affiliations are prohibited both in and out of uniform. Unauthorized (content): Members who receive tattoos/brands not meeting the standards after the implementation of this policy are required to initiate tattoos/brands removal at their own expense upon notification by their Commander. Initial Accessions must disclose any tattoos and must complete removal of inappropriate tattoos prior to being accepted in the Air Force. Members failing to remove or alter unauthorized tattoos in a timely manner may be subject to disciplinary action or involuntary separation. Failure to observe these mandatory provisions and prohibitions by active duty Air Force members, USAFR members on active duty or inactive duty for training and ANG members in Federal service is a violation of Article 92, Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). (See notes 2, 3, 4 and 5). Tattoos/Brands (Inappropriate-m ilitary image) Excessive tattoos/brands will not be exposed or visible (includes visible through the uniform) while in uniform. Excessive is defined as any tattoo/ brands that exceed 1/4 of the exposed body part and those above the collarbone and readily visible when wearing an open collar uniform. Members should not be allowed to display excessive tattoos that would detract from an appropriate professional image while in uniform. Commanders should use these guidelines in determining appropriate military image and acceptability of tattoos displayed by members in uniform. Air Force members with tattoos not meeting an acceptable military image should be required to (a) maintain complete coverage of the tattoos using current uniform items (e.g. long-sleeved shirt/blouse, pants/ slacks, dark hosiery, PT running suit, etc.) or (b) remove tattoo(s). Depending on the circumstances, commanders may seek Air Force medical support for voluntary tattoo removal. PTDY is not authorized in this situation and is at member’s expense. Members failing to remove, cover, or alter excessive tattoos or who choose not to comply with acceptable military standards may be subject to disciplinary action or involuntary separation. Failure to observe these mandatory provisions and prohibitions by active duty Air Force members, USAFR members on active duty or inactive duty for training and ANG members in Federal service is a violation of Article 92, Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). (See notes 2, 4, 5 and 6). Marines MARADMIN 198/07 UNCLAS 191708Z MAR 07 CMC WASHINGTON DC(UC) AL MARADMIN(UC) MARADMIN MARADMIN 198/07 MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC// SUBJ/ANNOUNCEMENT OF CHANGES TO THE MARINE CORPS TATTOO POLICY// REF/A/MSGID:DOC/CMC WASHINGTON DC MCUB/YMD:20030331// POC/S. T. FOSTER/CAPT/-/-/TEL:COMM 703 784 9387/TEL:DSN 278 9387// NARR/REF A MCO P1020.34G, MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS// GENTEXT/-/1. PURPOSE. TO DETAIL REVISIONS AND ADDITIONS TO THE TATTOO POLICY FOUND IN MCO P1020.34G, MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS. 2. EFFECTIVE 1 APRIL 2007, PARAGRAPH 1004.1C OF MCO P1020.34G, MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS, IS CANCELLED AND REPLACED WITH THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH. "... MARINES ARE PROHIBITED FROM: C. TATTOOS OR BRANDS ON THE HEAD AND NECK. SLEEVE TATTOOS ARE LIKEWISE PROHIBITED. A SLEEVE TATTOO IS A VERY LARGE TATTOO, OR A COLLECTION OF SMALLER TATTOOS, THAT COVERS OR ALMOST COVERS A PERSON_S ENTIRE ARM OR LEG. HALF-SLEEVE OR QUARTER-SLEEVE TATTOOS THAT ARE VISIBLE TO THE EYE WHEN WEARING STANDARD PT GEAR (T-SHIRT AND SHORTS) ARE LIKEWISE PROHIBITED. A HALF-SLEEVE OR QUARTER-SLEEVE TATTOO IS DEFINED AS A VERY LARGE TATTOO, OR A COLLECTION OF SMALLER TATTOOS THAT COVERS, OR ALMOST COVERS, THE ENTIRE PORTION OF AN ARM OR LEG ABOVE OR BELOW THE ELBOW OR KNEE. TATTOOS OR BRANDS THAT ARE PREJUDICIAL TO GOOD ORDER, DISCIPLINE AND MORALE, OR ARE OF A NATURE TO BRING DISCREDIT UPON THE MARINE CORPS ARE ALSO PROHIBITED. PREJUDICIAL TO GOOD ORDER, DISCIPLINE AND MORALE, OR ARE OF A NATURE TO BRING DISCREDIT UPON THE MARINE CORPS MAY INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, ANY TATTOO THAT IS SEXIST, RACIST, VULGAR, ANTI-AMERICAN, ANTI-SOCIAL, GANG RELATED, OR EXTREMIST GROUP OR ORGANIZATION RELATED." 3. THE FOLLOWING NEW SUPARAGRAPHS 1004.1C(1) AND 1004.1C(2) ARE ADDED. "(1) MARINES WHO CURRENTLY HAVE A SLEEVE TATTOO(S) WILL BE GRANDFATHERED. THE MARINE'S COMMAND WILL INSERT A PHOTOGRAPH(S) OF THE RESPECTIVE TATTOO(S) ALONG WITH A MEASUREMENT(S) OF THE SIZE IN INCHES AND OF THE LOCATION(S) ON THE BODY AND THE DATE THE TATTOO(S) WAS DOCUMENTED, ON THE PAGE 11 OF THE MARINE'S SRB. THE MARINE WILL SIGN THE PAGE 11 ENTRY VERIFYING THE INFORMATION IS CORRECT." "(2) THE DEPUTY COMMANDANT FOR MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS IS DESIGNATED AS THE ADJUDICATING AUTHORITY FOR ANY TATTOO ISSUE INVOLVING RETENTION OR SPECIAL DUTY ASSIGNMENTS. REVIEW OF A QUESTIONABLE TATTOO(S) WILL BE SUBMITTED TO DC M&RA (MM) VIA THE REENLISTMENT, EXTENSION, LATERAL MOVE SYSTEM (RELMS). THE PACKAGE WILL INCLUDE A PHOTOGRAPH(S) OF THE TATTOO(S), MEASUREMENT(S) OF THE SIZE IN INCHES, DESCRIPTION OF THE LOCATION(S) AND EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THE TATTOO(S) HAS BEEN DEEMED QUESTIONABLE BY THE COMMANDER." 4. COMMANDER'S ARE REQUIRED TO EDUCATE ALL THEIR MARINES ON THE NEW POLICY AND DOCUMENT ANY MARINE THAT REQUIRES GRANDFATHERING BY 1 JULY 2007.//

I like this topic. I got my first tattoo at age 22. Then it took me until I was 36 to get my second one... Third at 41. Fourth and fifth just this summer at 42. I'm getting them at an accelerated pace now. Maybe it's midlife crisis! Not really because I'm at a good place in my life. Maybe I'm trying to hold onto part of my former punk rock identity. Whatever it is, I don't care. I think it's just that I like tattoos and I'm settled in my career and so I feel free to do as I wish. People haven't said this to me personally--but when I hear or read about people saying things like, "She's going to regret those tattoos when she's old and wrinkled and they don't look so good", I just think that is just a lame way of saying "I don't like tattoos". Old and wrinkled is old and wrinkled... I don't think an old and wrinkled un-tattooed arm is going to look much better than an old and wrinkled tattooed one. If I live to be old and wrinkled I might just want to cover my arms with long-sleeved shirts if my skin has varicose veins and liver spots. But then, maybe tattoos can cover up liver spots and varicose veins. I think tattooed grandmas are cute and I hope to become one someday.

That's true, but please bear in mind that this kind of pandering to other corporate cultures is one of the reasons that women, ethnic minorities and people with regional accents deemed to be working-class have also found it hard or impossible to be employed in the past. The courier/sales company that my brother works for have a strong presence in the middle-east and it has taken decades for women to attain managerial sales positions based on the perception of their abilities by certain middle eastern clients. I know tattoos are different, in that they represent a choice by the individual, but I think the parallels are there. I am interested in those on tis thread who work in education and universities specifically. I have worked for roughly eight UK universities over the last 13 years and I have always found it to be quite a heavily tattooed sector to work in. I think that it is quite accepted, unless I just haven't noticed prejudice. There are many conservative, corporate people who work in H.E. that would probably judge tattoos, but given that we work in a sector that provides a service to a demograph of society that is generally pro-tattoo, it would be odd to be too negative about it. It appears to me that almost half of University students have tattoos (the ones that are visible) and many of my colleagues have them too. I can't imagine being judged for my tattoos. I would be genuinely shocked.

Hope you guys like this, this to the people who post on here that make me lol...

Last pick is by Horitsune

Such a bummer to sign on and see 3 pages on this thread that only started yesterday. For the record, I can close a thread so we don't have to go on and on in circles, I might've closed it as soon as the other thread on tattooers with little to no tattoos was referenced. I appreciate that everyone was civil and thoughtful in their responses, and everything has been resolved, but I'm going to close this thread. Please feel free to "report a post/thread" if it ever feels needed, that's the little ! in a triangle on the bottom of every post, left of center. And the next time someone new to LST asks a question about "breaking into the business," we can refer them to THIS thread. BTW, welcome to LST areilla.

Areilla, i think that artist crossed a line. at least from a customer's stand point. it was your work, and that's pretty disrespectful for anyone to rip if off without your permission, regardless of what style it was. personally, i wouldn't go back. then again, i always let the artist design the tattoo for me. some artists may view having someone bringing in their own work as a slap in the face. after all, they are artists too, and perfectly capable of designing something that is unique and just for you (i've never seen one of my tattoos on someone else, other than the piece that inspired me starting this thread). that's half the fun for me, is seeking out someone based on their talents, and giving them a handful of ideas or something that's been stewing around in my brain, and then seeing what their imagination comes up with. but this is just my humble opinion and i'm in no way trying to argue with you. just provide you a different perspective.

Just thought I'd share the finished reaper I had posted before since a couple people seemed to like it. It's got the black edge around it because it's meant as a patch for this dude's denim jacket.

Also from a dudes perspective I'm only cool for a certain number of coffees and walks in the park .

Since this site is open for anyone to join I suggest a policy of no "breaking into the business" related questions as a forum rule. All that does is keeping tattooers away, thus making it alot less fun for all of the other members who are genuinely interested in talking about tattoos.

Best advice. That, and go get tattooed like it's an addiction, because if it's not, and if tattooing is about making a logical career change instead of succumbing to this overwhelming force you can't really understand but you feel a need for... then it might not be the right choice. I replied again against my better judgment and you seem like a nice enough person, but please understand that in tattooing and, likewise for the tattooed folks that tend to be serious, they're not thinking about what their mother will say (after the third, fourth, etc. that worry falls by the wayside, if it ever existed) -- they're already thinking about the next one, how pumped they are to get tattooed by whoever's doing it, whether it's a close friend or a tattooer they've waited years to be tattooed by. On both ends of it, that person is basically feeding the need. That phrase that you don't choose tattooing, tattooing chooses you, seems to prove itself more and more, especially on here. Go figure. Also, internet arguing will most likely pale in comparison to working at an actual shop with actual people who want actual tribal arm bands and tazmanian devils. Good luck.

Then you will never ever be a good tattooer or even a decent one. It sounds to me like you are looking in the wrong direction as far as a career change. You said earlier you have a perfect job except the soul sucking part of it, I say keep that perfect job because tattooing is NOT a perfect job either and involves it's own share of soul sucking and dealing with idiots on a daily basis. p.s. quit now.

I finished this about a month ago. Just got prints made through Shirts and Destroy. Ron Henry Wells | Webstore

err dolphin. enjoy ;)

First off I would like to thank everyone for their kind words. I am Lee Hanna's sister. Reading stuff about him makes me smile. You can't imagine how much I miss him! I print things off that I find written about him online. I am making a scrapbook for his daughters that he left behind. They deserve to know what a kind, caring and loving person he was. He touched so many peoples lives it's unreal! Please keep telling stories about him if you have some you would like to share!! Thanks Again!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/denise-vivaldo/my-tattoo_b_785159.html As food and traveling seem to be many of our, LSTers, favorite things to do besides getting tattooed here's some food threads on Last Sparrow Tattoo for you to jump in on: Favorite Restaurants Food and Drink List Man Vs. Food Foodies Tattoos and Chefs

I wish there was a rule that said servicemen have to stop getting tribal and start getting Bulldogs, Eagles and USN tattoos like they are supposed to.

I teach kindergarten and I have 5 tattoos so far, 2 of them are new as of this summer. There are a couple of other teachers at my school with tattoos that show and a high percentage of the parents in that community have tattoos as well (inner city Los Angeles). When I go back to work in a couple weeks my little owl on my forearm will show more often than any of the others. I highly doubt it will be offensive to anyone and we don't have a dress code rule about it. If I were teaching in small town USA things might be different but tattoos are a part of the culture here in LA. I think in general the times are changing--not just in regards to tattoos but everything seems to be heading in a more casual direction and I'm happy with that. Aside from being able to show tattoos, I'm glad I can wear jeans to work (nice ones) because I sit on the floor with my kids half the day and do messy art projects with them and skirts or dry-clean only type pants don't make sense with what I do. I am not going to showcase my tattoos at work but I am not going to hide them purposely either (none of them are scary though, if I get a skull for example, I would get it in a hidden place). Last year sometimes the cat on my back would show and the kids always liked it. I like how kids are open minded like that. I work hard, I love kids, I am a good teacher, and I have tattoos... I think people can deal with that.

Just to clarify before anyone gets crazy on me, the comment I made about sluts and whores is not directed at every female who wears a tank top. It's just at those who are obviously throwing that shit out there and trying to have it seen on purpose. Also, I feel like if someone is getting tattoos just so other people will see them and think 'oh how cool and unique you must be' then you shouldn't even be getting them in the first place. I agree 100% percent with everyone who has said 'i go to work to do a good job and make money, not to look cool and show off my tattoos'. If someone has such a huge problem that they won't work somewhere because they can't show their tattoos, then they obviously aren't the confident individual they are claiming to be because if they were they would know that they don't need to be showing off tattoos or crazy coloured hair to let their personality or individuality show. It actually makes me really sad when people base their entire life on one thing like their tattoos. It's like the 'punk' kids who give themselves a bright blue mohawk and then cry about how no one wants to hire them.

Like Kev said if there is a policy about tattoos then you or whoever is the boss has every right to bring it up with the offender. If when hired there was no mention in paper or in person that tattoos are not allowed then you can only ask that they cover up and if they do they do and if they don't well they don't. If it's that big of a deal a company can put a new policy in place stating that tattoos and piercing must not be visible at work and then give it a couple days to get around. As far as women who let their tits hang out 'just so you can see the tattoo', well that is what we in America call a slut or a whore and they likely would have their tits hanging out even if they didn't have a tattoo. In fact I believe some get tattoos there just to have an excuse to wear a slutty top. If one person is not allowed to show their tattoos at work, then no one in the company should be.

Unless the employee you bring up signed paperwork in their new hire docs that's specifically state that there is a no visible tattoo policy, than you have no recourse. You might want to consider speaking to your HR about creating an addendum. But I believe if your company felt as strongly about tattoos and "self-expression" in the workplace as you do, they would've covered that in the paperwork.

That very first picture is very beautifull it also appears in the Nihon Dentou series of books which feature high quality photographs .

William Shatner and Joe Jackson - Common People. One of my favorites. This is what I was quoting from on the other thread. "everybody hates a tourist!"

Ryan Mason's work is awesome! I've been wanting something from him for quite some time now. Check out this amazing backpiece:

I feel like this would be a good time to mention that I, and I'm sure many others here, were at one point more of a 'tourist' with only a couple tattoos. I've heard people say before that everyone who's been tattooed at some point thinks it would be an awesome job that they could do. I'm included in that. It took me a very short time to see what a fool I was to think that. As soon as I realized what being a tattooer is I knew it wasn't for me but that getting heavily tattooed was for me. Ten years or so later I'm glad with the decision to dedicate my time and hard work to what I am truly passionate about and it turns out that even though I'm not a tattooer I can still be an artist and I can still be part of the tattoo community. I know someone said this earlier but you can become part of tattooing without being a tattooer. I still get to be around tattooers whenever I want, go to conventions and sell my art and work in shops.

MsRad you are too kind. But i admit i was being sarcastic and speaking metaphorically.

Deb- I wasn't trying to say you were ;) For me it's less about who's making the money and more about how the shop is run, how the artists and customers are being treated, the quality of the work, an the proximity to other shops. Someone who actually knows what they are doing and is a non tattooer to me is better than some dip shit scratch artist who's ripping off their staff or clients and putting out awful work or someone who goes and opens a shop up where there is already good shops just to try an make more money than if they worked for someone else

i think an improved response might have been to link to the previous thread and also to the new tattoo newbie guidelines. just my own .02 as i slowly come back here. i was impressed enough with how this thread was handled to sign back in (not that my opinion counts for much, but just wanted to say "good job!"). and i think i get Deb's point (maybe?), and possibly another point she didn't even mean for others to get. her friend is missing out on the whole experience worried about what others will think, and on top of it, she'll never completely understand the experience of African Americans or other races for that matter, simply based on her own ethnicity/race. tattooing is kind of similar. if you're not born or develop that drive to be tattooed, then you're never going to understand the full experience, and if you're worried all the time about what others think, then you're probably never going to have that innate drive.

Jut thought of something : on some other non tattoo forums I've joined to become a member you have to validate your account through your email. This requires users to read an initial emailed message and click the 'activate account link'. I don't know much about how forums work but I though maybe if we had something like that where all new members received an email or personal message here that they are required to read before having their username validated it would cut down on the type of stuff we dont want here. Or maybe every new member can be sent a link to the suggestions for newcomers thread and be told they should read it before posting.

Groundhog Day! Threads like this and posters like areilla are some of the reasons I don't come here much anymore. I'm tired of defending real tattooing and discussing why people shouldn't be tattooers when they clearly don't understand what tattooing is. Someone fairly intelligent who thinks they have a grasp on art wants to be a tattooer, they post a dumb-ass, inflammatory post, people exercise their good will and give sensible responses, the original poster spouts a fountain of reasons why they are right and everybody else is wrong because their reasoning is rock-solid and everybody just doesn't understand, man. Then a bunch of comparisons with other trades and professions are drawn but none of them hit the point. Then someone calls out 'bullshit' or 'troll' the original poster reasons that's what internet forums are for, to discuss stuff. It's fucking boring. With a half-working knowledge of how to argue a point, you can 'prove' that you deserve to tattoo. That doesn't mean you do. You can 'prove' that tattooers don't need many tattoos because 'it's art man, it's all about personal choice'. that doesn't mean you're not a parasite. areilla, if you can save tattooing and feel you are better than everybody else but you don't want to pay for tattoos, you should type less and draw more. But I know you won't. You read a thread just like this, that had some great points raised but you wanted one of your own.

Here's your new tattoo, done and done. It's the cover of the sketchbook a guy at my shop put together. Snoose is loose. I am kidding by the way although that would be a great tattoo and I could arrange it. But I think what you are doing is what most people do these days with a first tattoo, which is over think it. I don't know where you live but I am sure if you are lookiing for a good artist someone couldn't point you in that direction.

I hope she has a good life and can be happy :)

See, that's why I wear long sleeves to work. I realize that tattoos are conversation-starters, but unless the person I'm talking to is also tattooed, chances are I don't wanna have that conversation. I'm a copywriter for a big company with thousands of employees globally. I work as part of a small creative team, all of whom know I'm tattooed and none of whom care, but there are a lot of, for lack of a kinder word, uptight people in my office. I recognize that, to them, there's a huge difference between someone with a small tattoo here and there and someone (like me) with full sleeves. It's always funny when I roll my cuffs up a bit and someone asks, "So how far up do those go?" I just smile and say, "All the way."

I work in an office environment with a small team working a nightshift and my workmates know I'm tattooed. All that is visable are the tips of an eagles wings on the back of my neck. The only reason I don't show them is that I always wear a long sleaved shirt at work, although once, when I had to pop in to work on my time off I was wearing a t shirt because thats how I usually dress when I'm not at work. At my age I couldn't care less about climbing the corperate ladder, never could when I think about it (never did like the idea of my tongue tasting of shit). The only reason that I don't have any tattoos on my hands is because you never know what is around the corner as far as employment is concerned and unfortunately tattoos still carry a stigma. During my last year at work, before I retire, I will get my hands done though.

This one by Chad Coeplinger is one of my favourite tigers

Gouge - First, agreed about Ron's print! It's awesome. I met him at a convention but didn't know he was an awesome tattooer at the time, fail on my part! Hopefully Ron, I'll be seeing you at another one soon. The Lil Talismans (funny you call it that, i posted on my blog and called them tiny talismans). I'm being inspired by images from books about alchemy, witchcraft, astrology but I've been sewing them I guess you would say free hand. I'm just going at it and so far it's worked out. Some are more obvious than others, like I did one of an eye, and then some like one I posted were just made up in my brains.

this is rad, I was thinking of staring a thread like this bit figured everyone would just shit all over it. anyways, glad to see it's already here.. This is what i'm currently working on (unfinished at the moment) It's hand embroidery and paint on fabric. It's going to be a patch for a denim vest. I've also been making what I'm calling embroidered talismans the past week, here's one of them It's also hand sewn and is about2.5"

That is a great tattoo! I think you'll seriously regret messing with it further down the line. Give it a year, it's not like you can't cover it up if you want to. And get more tattoos. When you're ready for more, I'd talk to Eli and see about adding to it, what can go around it, etc. And I bet by that point you won't be able to believe you ever thought about getting rid of it. Shit, that things probably just finished healing!

when i got my first tattoo, I freaked out because it was huge and came way down into my elbow ditch. I woke up the next morning in a panic and was searching laser removal places. This feeling quickly wained. I am a critical person, of others but mainly of myself, and I could knit-pick each and everyone of my tattoos - this line looks funny, I should have placed this a little further up, maybe that was a rash decision... you will drive yourself crazy. that tattoo looks amazing, is personal and IS YOURS. Like some people have mentioned, as time goes on you will remember each piece for whatever reason. If you are thinking of doing something, I would consult eli. Although admittedly that would be tough to do. I have a lot of tattoos from him, and he is too nice! Also, that first tattoo of mine is an elephant on the inside of my bicep by mike rubendall - needless to say - I am happy I did not get it removed. (it's in my profile albums)

i'm currently scouring through photos to find new shots of my dad's oldest tattoos, but he got a boatload done over a 10 day span at End of the Trails when Goodtime Charlie was in Wichita in the early '80s. this would be within a few years of getting them...

Tom Leopard is now 73 and seems to still be happy with his choices.

But, on to the topic. As shaneenholm talked about originators and the new generation, for me, as a collector, I agree because there is a enormous romantic aspect in all of this. It is the lineage in there, the feeling of togetherness. It is for some reason many times lost in the new works you see. Because of course as it has been said in this topic, there is a difference between the old sharing of info and the new way. As I wrote in my blog post about Dan Higgs about people seem to act like they want to be the kings, the myths themselfs. Just instantly elevate themselfs to those same romantic pedastals, and not actually build their careers and desings to that level that some day their peers and the clients can lift them there if they want to and "deserve it" (I think in the end of the day everyone who puts their heart into it deserves it). Its like some matrix type shit. Just plug yourself in (go to facebook, myspace etc) and copy the "knowledge". It bores me and saddens me as a client, because I want to feel the fucking mystery. And as it can be seen, its not about who does the most original shit. All the greats, Coleman, Lieber, Higgs, Hardy, Collins, Devita, Jensen, Stoney and so on, they were influenced. But they also respected. At least it seems like that. The aura is different. I could try to say more but all of this comes out in my blog, so I dont have anything more to say really... edit. I wanted to ad. When I talk about that I need more mystery etc., it doesnt mean I JUST want some weird occult stuff. But the mystery can be just honest pure work. Detication and good heart. You know. In these days, THAT is romantic.

I'm not a tattoo artist but it seems like there's no credibility that way. If you're passionate about painting you'd own paintings. If you're passionate about tattooing you'd have tattoos. Obviously it's nothing but a business venture to you then if you're nothing but blank skin and you're encroaching on good people's livelihoods and careers. I mean hell, at least get the standard warped tour visible tattoos and fake it ;)