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Groundhog Day! Threads like this and posters like areilla are some of the reasons I don't come here much anymore. I'm tired of defending real tattooing and discussing why people shouldn't be tattooers when they clearly don't understand what tattooing is. Someone fairly intelligent who thinks they have a grasp on art wants to be a tattooer, they post a dumb-ass, inflammatory post, people exercise their good will and give sensible responses, the original poster spouts a fountain of reasons why they are right and everybody else is wrong because their reasoning is rock-solid and everybody just doesn't understand, man. Then a bunch of comparisons with other trades and professions are drawn but none of them hit the point. Then someone calls out 'bullshit' or 'troll' the original poster reasons that's what internet forums are for, to discuss stuff. It's fucking boring. With a half-working knowledge of how to argue a point, you can 'prove' that you deserve to tattoo. That doesn't mean you do. You can 'prove' that tattooers don't need many tattoos because 'it's art man, it's all about personal choice'. that doesn't mean you're not a parasite. areilla, if you can save tattooing and feel you are better than everybody else but you don't want to pay for tattoos, you should type less and draw more. But I know you won't. You read a thread just like this, that had some great points raised but you wanted one of your own.

Also from a dudes perspective I'm only cool for a certain number of coffees and walks in the park .

Then you will never ever be a good tattooer or even a decent one. It sounds to me like you are looking in the wrong direction as far as a career change. You said earlier you have a perfect job except the soul sucking part of it, I say keep that perfect job because tattooing is NOT a perfect job either and involves it's own share of soul sucking and dealing with idiots on a daily basis. p.s. quit now.

I hate to be up front but from what you wrote here and in a couple of other posts, I gather you haven't really been around tattooing much. I hate to be frank but if you don't like getting tattooed you don't like tattoos. There are too many people who get into tattooing as an escape to their job they have or some sort of midlife crisis rock star thing, but don't understand what people put into this craft in order to be good and how many people are half assin it out there. I knew right off the bat I would not be a tattooer not because I don't want to be, but plain and simple there are too many people doing it and I could never do it as well as the people who have mastered it. I have managed to find a way to be part of tattooing without tattooing by working at a shop and getting tattooed by great artists, I would suggest you do the same.

Since this site is open for anyone to join I suggest a policy of no "breaking into the business" related questions as a forum rule. All that does is keeping tattooers away, thus making it alot less fun for all of the other members who are genuinely interested in talking about tattoos.

Best advice. That, and go get tattooed like it's an addiction, because if it's not, and if tattooing is about making a logical career change instead of succumbing to this overwhelming force you can't really understand but you feel a need for... then it might not be the right choice. I replied again against my better judgment and you seem like a nice enough person, but please understand that in tattooing and, likewise for the tattooed folks that tend to be serious, they're not thinking about what their mother will say (after the third, fourth, etc. that worry falls by the wayside, if it ever existed) -- they're already thinking about the next one, how pumped they are to get tattooed by whoever's doing it, whether it's a close friend or a tattooer they've waited years to be tattooed by. On both ends of it, that person is basically feeding the need. That phrase that you don't choose tattooing, tattooing chooses you, seems to prove itself more and more, especially on here. Go figure. Also, internet arguing will most likely pale in comparison to working at an actual shop with actual people who want actual tribal arm bands and tazmanian devils. Good luck.

I have a white girlfriend. She really likes dark, black, African-American men. The darker the skin the better. She likes Motown music and Tyler Perry movies. She loves going to soul food restaurants. She even wears her hair in corn rows. Right now she's limited her dating to walks in the park or going for coffee with them cause she is concerned what her mom will think. She's thinking about teaching a class or speaking about "Civil rights --- the black perspective" She just loves the black race and as a white girl wants to embrace the African-American experience.

It does relate!

The first capacitors were not capacitors at all, they were condensers, as in the "Points coil effect" of Edison applied to the internal combustion engine ignition of the points and coil adding the condenser to preserve the burning of the contact points in the ignition became necessary to prevent machines falling out of time with an enlarged point gap in need of burnishing of the contact points from the excessive snap of electricity. Working similar to the capacitor of today that fills and only releases X amount, the condenser simply arrests the spark. The true origin to the 6 volt condenser application to the later creation and application of the capacitor, as the capacitor in the form we use today post-dates in "electronic's" and not the dawn of the "combustible gasoline engine", can be found in Walter Cleveland's tinkering and among allot of his creations or experiments in the elaborate door bell concepts. The 6 volt condenser can still be applied and work, it's just BIG, you can do so by attaching the single wire spade connector to the contact screw binding post and you can still get the 6 volt and a 12 will work equally and pick them up in auto supply stores, I use early Harley 6 volt replacement condensers. The point made of the use of the condenser versus the capacitor are that the condenser works to arrest and save your points from burning quickly, in the day that the guys at the shops were running off of a bank of machines that ran all day and all night knocking out tattoos on sailors while in port for a few days strait, they needed to keep things from falling into repair and running smoothly as we all know, when things are not, it makes for more time consumption when time was essential. The Capacitor however works as just that, it limits the capacity, so two different electric components with two different applications. Lyle put in print once that Walter was the man accredited to inventing the "capacitor" in use of the tattoo machine but I don't believe Walter ever reached the days of the capacitor advent that we use today and it most likely came from necessity through someone who knew enough about transistor radios/electronics to make the switch or someone who burnt the devils lettuce and figured it and then the passage from then on became part of tattoo machine evolution. The "facts" are, the West Coast appeared to have capacitors on machines in use and photo form prior to anything else I have found. I know this doesn't answer the question of the "who and when" but it does lend to the advent of controlling the flow and operation of both mechanical and electrical evolution of the machine, Spaulding was offering them in the 1970's and I can't remember when I switched to using them, didn't use them until the early 80's. Other things to note of Walter's experiments would be, the rubber band and coil spring controlled A-Bar machine, the side mounted nipple on the A-Bar which became antiquated by the use of constant changing of the needle bar for each customer as the needle bar was drawn tight to the nipple then to be considered "fixed" until the pins wore out, the use of mixing 8 wrap and 10 wrap coils, his work at developing a very light weight machine, square coil cores, the creation of what now has come to be known as "true spring" of cutting an angle into the A-Bar for the spring "pitch". As a footnote for evidence, I have examples of all of the above, from reworked early Waters frames and hacked Jonesy frames to what he came to use most commonly which were seconds supplied by J.G.Russell, they always appear "shop floor paint green" and have notches evident on the frame that is evident of a factory second as they are casting flaws and not always consistent. I would like to think that Walter was "the Father" of the capacitor but it is an important thing to keep the candle lit on facts when the record of history is of concern. Most important to note and to Walter's credit would be that he really invested time and care in understanding the machine long before there was so much that we see now and to mention that he had to have a love for what he did as he was born left handed and tattooed left handed for many years until he lost the fingers from a saw mill accident, Stoney mentioned he lost them in WW-I but we know now that the saw mill was the culprit, regardless, he continued to tattoo by understanding how to work with the right hand. This is not to mention all of the greats that he worked with and the circle he kept in a day and age that had no internet of cell phone. He certainly had a true love for his trade and the Cleveland Family certainly carpeted the halls we walk today and should never be forgotten.

i think an improved response might have been to link to the previous thread and also to the new tattoo newbie guidelines. just my own .02 as i slowly come back here. i was impressed enough with how this thread was handled to sign back in (not that my opinion counts for much, but just wanted to say "good job!"). and i think i get Deb's point (maybe?), and possibly another point she didn't even mean for others to get. her friend is missing out on the whole experience worried about what others will think, and on top of it, she'll never completely understand the experience of African Americans or other races for that matter, simply based on her own ethnicity/race. tattooing is kind of similar. if you're not born or develop that drive to be tattooed, then you're never going to understand the full experience, and if you're worried all the time about what others think, then you're probably never going to have that innate drive.

If people would just read the suggestions for newcomers and use the search option then it wouldn't happen !!

how will you ever truely learn how to tattoo without getting tattooed? also, until you've invested yourself completely you have absolutely no clue of what it takes to be a tattooer/"tattoo artist" let alone a really good one. i guess, i find it somewhat offensive...if you only want 2 tattoos why would you want to do tattoos? it doesnt seem that passionate to me. ugh...

The place I show off I my tattoos the most is at work. Granted one of my jobs is a tattoo shop but my other job I do because I work in a warehouse its hot and they all know I have tattoos. Luckily I have worked there for awhile and I have already had all the 'I'm going to get a tattoo of this and that and the other and it means to me because of this bull shit" which translates to "I really am never going to get this tattoo but I want to talk about it so people think I am cool" with everyone. It bugs me sometimes, but I always try to give people the best advice about tattooing, not matter how bad their idea is or whether they are smart enough to listen to me. There are a couple guys I work with who have become regulars at the shop, so some people get it. But on my day off, unless it is 90 degrees like today I will probably be in a long sleeve shirt, Levis and Boots.

I think the back piece is really one of my favorite things when it comes to meeting other people with lots of coverage... My tattoos on my back are my favorite, and it just sucks I can't see em... but that's what a photo is for right, so here goes... Top Chrysanthemums were by Casey Corklic Garland, TX, and the Jigoku Dayu was done by Doug Love, Santa Cruz, CA.. And of Course, theres a cover up or two. . .

We spent a lot of time in Quebec City, in the old section. Beautiful. I ate poutine every day and smuggled foie gras home.

Just wanted to give a shout out to some dudes still cranking out traditional tattoos that look like the ones you woulda got back then. I know most of the american tattooers here know these guys but I feel like the general tattoo crowd might not.. Timmy Tatts He also did the tattoo in my profile photo Krooked Ken Also both super nice dudes.

Ryan Mason's work is awesome! I've been wanting something from him for quite some time now. Check out this amazing backpiece:

Yeah there stuff always looks good for sure. I like Ryan and Henry stuff I think the best but overall great shop. There are so many people I want to get tattooed by in Portland, I need to make a habit of branching out of my regular tattooers even when not on vacation.

i have! but i also know people who have been tattooed by many of the guys there, and the work just always looks spot on. i fuckin' love sweet pea, especially their all you can eat brunch.

haha Deb I'm sure by my reply you figured out that I also didn't realize you were joking.. anyways in that case yes spot on.. hahaha

Just thought I'd share the finished reaper I had posted before since a couple people seemed to like it. It's got the black edge around it because it's meant as a patch for this dude's denim jacket.

i never claimed to know anything more about you than what you have expressed here and the reason its inflammatory is that you have such a limited experience and exposure to tattooing so being able to form the views you have expressed to people who have literally devoted their lives to tattooing and to make assumptions that you can do a good tattoo is what evokes the types of responses that you received. i don't doubt that you have a passion to pursue a career and devote yourself to it but i think it is just a lack of understanding of what it really means to say that you have no plans to get any more tattoos but yet you want to put them on other people. tattooing, even the "art" of it is far more involved than just drawing a picture and being able to execute it in a way that looks appealing. also understand, that i'm not one of those folks whose worried about competition or how many people are tattooing or those aspects of things. think of this as an example, i like to eat food. i like to cook food and have a certain curiosity and interest in food and how to cook it. i can cook some really tasty and appealing dishes that i imagine lots of people might like. i do think that i could enjoy being a chef but i know that if i were to ever really want to pursue being a real chef and not a line cook at a food chain, then i'm going to have to try lots of different kinds of food and figure out the best ways to prepare them. my key to being successful would rely on my ability to have a broad pallet and know everything i could about food. i think most serious chefs or people who have a passion for food might give me hell if i stated i'm going to be a chef/i want to be a chef/i think i could be a chef.. but i'm only willing to try 2 kinds of food...and maybe if something sounds good enough sometime in the future then i'll try something new.

just for fun:

Thread starter, this is gonna be one of those things like your parents told you when you were a teenager that you didn't believe at the time but down the road, realized "shit they were right" There is a very hard to define point where you turn from a tourist with a couple of tattoos into a tattooed person, and you can only get there by getting tattooed A LOT and living the lifestyle. If you ever DO get there, you'll remember this thread with some chagrin. I too have a cushy college admin job, and I've had it for 11 years with sleeves visible, stretched ears, etc - everyone I work with sees me as I am because I can't and won't hide it. I kinda hate the job, but I respect the $$ it provides.

Deb- I wasn't trying to say you were ;) For me it's less about who's making the money and more about how the shop is run, how the artists and customers are being treated, the quality of the work, an the proximity to other shops. Someone who actually knows what they are doing and is a non tattooer to me is better than some dip shit scratch artist who's ripping off their staff or clients and putting out awful work or someone who goes and opens a shop up where there is already good shops just to try an make more money than if they worked for someone else

Jut thought of something : on some other non tattoo forums I've joined to become a member you have to validate your account through your email. This requires users to read an initial emailed message and click the 'activate account link'. I don't know much about how forums work but I though maybe if we had something like that where all new members received an email or personal message here that they are required to read before having their username validated it would cut down on the type of stuff we dont want here. Or maybe every new member can be sent a link to the suggestions for newcomers thread and be told they should read it before posting.

It's kinda something like that. Nobody sits you down and explains a 90 chapter book about what tattooing is all about. Its just something clicks in your head, and once it does... you can't turn it off. It needs to be fed, and its a long winding rabbit tunnel. By all means though stick around and lurk.

I keep coming to this thread, writing a post, then... I end up not posting it, and maybe that's a good thing, because sometime shit happens when it happens, and it's good that way... So. . . I feel like a ping pong ball sometimes all the running around we do, and I know if there is anything I constantly get surprised by, it's the new tattooers I meet, and the level of skill, maturity, humility, and manners in them that makes me admire them, and really get into their "vibe"... And the lesser knowns, that fucking rule this craft, and keep it on a level that I will never get tired of being involved with and around... The new and unknowns keep the blood pumping and the fresh ideas circulating, maybe not inventively, but in a design or fashion trend way... Keet D'arms.. ATL, GA Caleb Barnard, Dru Bias, Casey Corklic, Will Card... Dallas, TX Brian Thurow... Denver, CO Steve Serazio... SPOTLIGHT Sal Trevino... TRUE Doug Love... Santa Cruz,CA Uzi... Sacramento, CA It's usually the squeaky wheel always getting the lube in a shop, but these dudes are the wheels that just keep rolling, no matter how hard things get... And they all take this stuff seriously, but manage to keep it fun at the same time. My heros of the moment.

Duffa, I'll be looking for a weather report....

So, I feel a little bad about having only shown old Trevor McStay work as I'd forgotten about that thing called Myspace? So here is an update :cool: These aren't exactly back pieces... but who really cares in this instance? More here: Dynamic Tattoo on Myspace

I fly out Thursday morning for Japan, and heading to Kyoto for 2 days of good times on my sleeve at The Cat Claw Tattoo-z :D Am I excited? Your daaaaaaaamn right ;) I'll post pics when I get back

Wow, NATFMS sounds like a pretty cool organization. American tattoo history is all about the enlisted man, its great that it's partially designed to show them respect and keep them from getting ripped off. As far as this- It sounds as though this could be an awful lot of work for you, but it would be a great resource for other tattooers that aren't near bases, and I'm sure a lot of people would find the whole NATFMS pretty interesting. I can speak for the rest of us at LST that we'd love to have that thread if you were willing to put it together. Personally, I only know one person in the marines. He more or less has a full bodysuit, but he's a sniper medic and has done multiple tours in Afghanistan and elsewhere, maybe they need him enough to let him do whatever he wants. (?) By the way, we also have two kids. 180 miles round trip is crazy! Although, my husband will be waking up in Sweden to do some more tattooing in a few hours, so I get the traveling for a job that you love thing. Is where you and your family lives much nicer than closer to your shop?

I suggest reading link that other users have pointed out to you. But what concerns me are those two statements. Why do you want to be a tattoo artist if you hold the body sacred, because if you do become a tattoo artist, you'll be fucking up a lot of peoples body with tattoos. And in what way did the tattoo artist screw up the design that you drew, did he not draw it exactly like you did, or did he change? Did he say do a lousy to mediocre tattoo or did he do a good tattoo that was just not your drawing?

Thought I'd chime in with my workplace experiences. Those of you who have met me or seen my photos know I have a lot of tattoos on my arms and legs, I don't have anything on my neck, face, or hands. I do have one on my chest that shows at work, my back piece shows with a tank top and I have some on the sides of my fingers that usually go unnoticed. I currently live in a very small town where I am the only heavily tattooed person around, there's a very small handful in the surrounding area who come through once in a while. Right now I run a gift store with my mother. I deal with mostly women aged 50+ in my day to day job. What I have found is that the more well dressed I am, the less shit I get for my tattoos. When I am dressed 'nicely' (button up shirt, or more of a dressy casual top and nice jeans or slacks usually) almost no one even comments. Sometimes I'll get 'are those tattoos real' 'did it hurt' or the other common non-rude questions and comments from people who are just curious because they've never seen someone, especially a woman who has so many. I have found that even with a tank top, if I look nice with my hair and makeup and nice shoes I usually don't have any problems. When I am not at work and dressed in a t shirt and motorcycle boots, or when I'm wearing more of a going out type of outfit (I have been described as having more of a 'rocker' look), that's when I get the shitty looks, rude/stupid comments, old ladies clutching purses, etc. So basically I think it's all about how you present yourself at work. I think it also has a lot to do with your attitude. When someone comes into my store and sees me and maybe doesn't like my tattoos or clothes it becomes really hard for them to be shitty towards me when I'm being overly nice and helpful to them. I think I've even helped change a couple people's mind about tattooed women this way. I know even my own mother thought all heavily tattooed people were trashy before I started getting a lot of tattoos.

I'm a secretary and I work at a university in an academic department. I have two small and discrete tattoos that are easily hidden under anything but a string bikini, and there's not much chance of my being caught dead in one since I stopped hitting the gym. I got them for myself, so I don't go out of my way to show them off to anyone. My "tramp stamp" shows if I'm bending over to pick something up but that's about it. My teenage daughter thinks its terrible that I have one at all, but hey! Mommy gets to have a life too. For the most part, I'm discrete about my tattoos and (when I was wearing jewelry) my belly button piercing. I'm getting a little old to have a belly button ring anyway. But I actually like the idea that most people would think I'm the LAST person to have any kind of body modification. When they find out that I have one they're usually really surprised. You can see that they look at you a little differently. I like that. Don't I get tired of trying to shock people, my husband asks. No, not really. I'm here to remind everyone that every single person you meet has a story, and it's usually not the one you expected they'd have. Funny story: I went to the grocery store and was in the pharmacy department. I stooped down look for something on the bottom shelf, threw my selection in my basket and went on my way. A few aisles later, an older gentleman, probably in his 70's, stopped me. He was very polite but he said he had to tell me that he saw me back in the pharmacy. He was getting his blood pressure measured at the machine and when he saw me stoop down and saw my tattoo...well dammit if it didn't cause his blood pressure to jump up! I blushed 10 shades of red. It was really cute.

I'd advise you to read this thread: http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/tattoo-101/915-tattooers-little-no-tattoos.html

http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/tattoo-101/915-tattooers-little-no-tattoos.html

my ex girlfriend broke up with me on facebook by changing her status then when she realized i didnt see it she sent me a reminder email to go and look. i guess she was right when she said i was paying attention to her...lol

Have massive respect for Grime and anyone that is driven to push themselves constantly, hell we are always our own worst critics. That keeps you humble and not buying the bullshit people try to feed you.

Another from Miss Stigsson

Stick Your Neck Out: The Visible Tattoo as Recession Status Symbol - Health - GOOD Just saw this via Needles & Sins blog.

I don't remember Chris running water, but I guarantee that he drinks more Hawaiian Punch than anyone on the planet.

Chris Conn from the Blackheart blog

its too bad you're not going next month. the montreal convention is gonna be killer. Josh Mason Bill Rocha Seth Ciferri Dan Santoro Elio Jason Steve Boltz GRIME Angelo Miller Little Chico Matt B Ruthless Mike Rubendall Todd Noble NORM KRIS ROBERTS THREE KINGS TATTOO GREG CHRISTIAN CHUCK D RON WELLS JASON SCOTT CHAD KOEPLINGER PATRICK SANS ISHMAEL JOHNSON SANDY CALISTRO WILLIAM THIDEMANN TOXYC Rus Laich TURK JEREMY SUTTON ADAM HATHORNE SCOTT ALTHEN James Samuela Horishin HORIMASA HORIKEN PAT DEE WAN Greg Laraigne ISSA-TIN-TIN BBR TATOUAGE DENO JONDIX Jayne Doe Tattoo Alex-La Main Bleue Alex MisterP Karl Marc Sacha Vlady GUEN DOUGLAS Art Tatoo Show Montreal sorry for the all caps on some of these. fast copying & pasting. no time for fixing that.

Without fail, the lady head in a rose Scott tattooed on me is the one that always gets the most, "Wait, lemme just.. see it one more time.."

I like to imagine that Valerie and Stewart sit around sipping Earl Grey, sketching horses while (ok, whilst) old episodes of The Young Ones play in the background.

There is nothing in my career i have learned more from than GETTING tattooed. Period. Vegan chefs make shitty steaks, If you don't have tattoos you shouldn't tattoo.

do not ever go back to the place you went for that laser consultation. she is insane.

have to throw a swedish guy in here.. Peter Lagergren works at Old Boned tattoo in Malmö before it burned down recently.. amazing work though.. http://peterlagergren.se/wp/

I hope the post of this picture comes through, it shows the top left machine of Walter Cleveland's using the Condenser, the 2nd and 3rd from the left are the two frame styles he used and came to be known for. The two of his rubber band/coil spring A-Bar machine are chopped Bill Jones squareback frames and considered his first attempts in making them a working machine. Something to note is that these machines really work well! Amazing the way the rubber band machines work, the machine with the longer teeter totter on it is the shader and the shorter the liner. Also, when you connect and disconnect the condenser, it appears to have no less effect than a capacitor, the spark is arrested. I called Scott and spoke with him at Tattoo Charlies in Baltimore, Scott learned from Dennis Watkins and Watkins from Charley, point being, Dennis's machines have the oldest form of a capacitor I can find. After thinking about the question, I figured as to what the earliest could be so I looked to the earliest example of a capacitor on a machine and what I found was Dennis Watkins from Tattoo Charlies to be the earliest I could find. Scott is gonna get back to me after he ask's around about it. Also bear in mind that Dennis worked closely with Paul Rogers and there would be a likely connection, I just hate to assume and post anything without backing it up with hard proof. Enjoy the pic.