State of the last sparrow tattoo Forum union

[Charles.M]

State of the last sparrow tattoo Forum union!

I think there are some great people on here who selflessly plug great info into this forum, constantly. Some have been around for years, through various fazes and transitions, some are new. I takes something from you to give to everyone else, so thank you. I am honored to now participate, while and when I have time and hope to be an asset to the group. 

My 4 part question to all Forum users, veterans, and others...is:  

(1) What is your perception of what last sparrow tattoo Forum is today? 
(2) why do you participate?
(3) what have you gained from it?
(4) what do you think will make it better? 

[Synesthesia]

I've been a member of the forum for years but post sporadically based on how sick I am of being tattooed haha. I take breaks from the forum after some particularly rough sits where I get burnt out even thinking about tattoos. Here's my thoughts on these questions:

1) It's more newbies posting a few questions, starting arguments, or spamming ("go to this website that has the same name as me for more tattoos that look like this!") than it is meaningful discussion or lively debates. I think a lot of the veterans barely post anymore, probably they're in the same boat as me where they just need breaks from the hobby sometimes. Some of the newer members are great additions, but others just are a drain on the place.

2) I love tattoos! I love getting them, having them, and hearing about other people's experiences. I lurk on some other tattoo forums but this is the only one I actively use because I like the format the best and it's just the one I'm the most familiar with.

3) A sense of humility. Sometimes you get to feeling a little too big for your britches when you live in an area where people are covered with shitty tattoos and yours are way better. This forum has put me in my place in that aspect and also just in seeing what other people have gone through and how I still have so much to learn. Obviously, I've also gained a lot of knowledge.

4) I don't really have a lot of concrete suggestions. I know I'd like a better filtration system for newbs (as far as blocking spam, moderators stepping up to address new members causing issues, etc). As far as actually creating great discussion among us...not sure.

[polliwog]

Seems weird for someone who isn't a moderator to ask us to take a survey.

[mtlsam]

2 hours ago, polliwog said:

Seems weird for someone who isn't a moderator to ask us to take a survey.

There seem to be a lot of weird posts from the o.p. of late, many of them plugging his business interest. I have called him out before and I guess I'm doing so again.

[Dan]

9 minutes ago, mtlsam said:

There seem to be a lot of weird posts from the o.p. of late, many of them plugging his business interest. I have called him out before and I guess I'm doing so again.

/\ this

[oboogie]

@Charles.M, what is your deal? This isn't your website. Why are you doing surveys? I just can't figure out what the point of about 95% of your posts are. So damn weird.

[marley mission]

(1) What is your perception of what last sparrow tattoo Forum is today? 

The forum? Too many garbage topics 

(2) why do you participate?

well I still enjoy it to a degree

(3) what have you gained from it?

so much - cant put a price on the things i've learned here

(4) what do you think will make it better? 

Well we could use some awesome folks returning and for the active folks - resist the urge to start shit topics - quality over quantity

 

as for the criticism of @Charles.M well he probably deserves it to a degree - he has made quite a few missteps here - and I'm not quite sure where I stand on some of his activity on here but whatever - LST is not life and life is not LST

[Charles.M]

Synesthesia's response was thoughtful, insightful and articulate, that is the kind response that I like to read. Also marley mission's response was constructive, I can see where there coming from.  Thank you.

Personal attacks are not constructive. 

I read a lot on this forum that I am interested in and just pass it by without response or comment. I respect this commons space that others use, what I am interested in, may actually useful to someone else. If you have nothing to add, why not just move on.  

When something catches my eye and I have something that I believe will add to the dialogue, I post a response. 

There are sections of his Forum which have been dormant for years, which I believed I could add content to stimulate discussion. I am unafraid of starting a thread on a topic which is not being focused on, or is vaguely referred to on page 101 of 300-page thread. Also my unique perspective , I believe is an asset, on occasion, to provide insight to honest questions from sincere people who ask for help. I think that is the point of this forum.

Having to respond to personal attacks on this forum is a waste of my time. 

The reason I only recently signed up to this forum, was because I had some time and it seemed the historical, debates over trivial matters and person attacks seemed to have been shed. Maybe I was wrong. If the only input you have on this forum is witty cutting remarks and unconstructive criticism, why are you here? 

  

 

[bongsau]

(1) What is your perception of what last sparrow tattoo Forum is today? 

I still believe LST is one of the few pockets of the internet where the community really takes the tattoos and tattoo experience seriously - despite the wave of dumbed-down posts.

LST reminds me of what BMEzine was back 15+ years ago when I discovered a curiousity for the taboo counterculture. It is a good archive of quality tattoos and information on the subculture but also a good forum for a community of knowledgeable and passionate tattoo enthusiasts around the world. That's why I've stuck around. People that get tattooed because they love/hate it! Not just because they want a tattoo as a fashion accessory.

(2) why do you participate?

LST gives me a space to discuss tattoos (my own and see others) and discuss the tattooing process and the concept of being an illustrated person. I don't really get an opportunity to do that in person outside of a tattoo shop. No one cares haha! Like oh yeah budd got another tattoo...um ok so what...LST people share your excitement, share your pain haha. LST gives me a chance to promote the good tattooing local to my area but also I get to see/read what else is going on around the world in terms of what the community is getting made on them and what makes for good solid tattooing. Also gives an opportunity to share our collective experience with folks that are new to the tattoo counterculture and approaching tattoo with sincerity. And a dose of real-talk when the bullshit starts watering down the forum.

(3) what have you gained from it?

A better understanding of why I got tattoo in the first place and continue on my path with my tattoos. LST has given me a forum to express and explore my tattoo journey - for myself and to share with the community here.

Tattoo has always had this "too-cool" vibe to it. Maybe that's what drew most of us in in the first place? I feel this forum helps break down those barriers and just get to what's what - tattoo. I try and take that away from LST and apply that to the in-person real world. 

I've gained some friendly internet stranger acquaintances. Supportive and enthusiastic tattoo kin-folk ! Even if it is just a "like" on the 'gram, I know the LSTer on the other side of the country knows whats up! so thx.

(4) what do you think will make it better? 

More passionate tattoo collectors, less tattoo-tourism. More honest discussion. More sharing, less jabs - this isn't reddit !

[polliwog]

My original post wasn't meant as a personal jab.  If you hang around here for a little while, it seems to me that a user's body of posts answers all of these questions without a need to ask them explicitly--that is, I have a sense of how any given poster feels about these issues simply from having followed their contributions for a while.  (But maybe I'm wrong.)  So the survey format from a relative newcomer is a bit of a head-scratcher--like, why not tell us how you feel first?  That's all.

Edited October 24, 2016 by polliwog

[Dan]

am I missing something here ? because I don't see any "personal attacks",

I just see opinions.

[sophistre]

I am pretty new around here, by comparison with some other people. So, take my opinion with a grain of salt. But:

A lot of the subforums are dead because a lot of the people who came here and made this place what it was don't come here anymore. A lot of them were tattooers, even. Good ones. Great ones! There are some threads on this forum that I imagine could literally be considered valuable parts of tattoo history because they have stories that came from people who got those stories from other people who tattooed back when the internet wasn't even a thing. There are threads with tattooers in them who are, nowadays, kinda leading the charge with contemporary tattooing, too. And it's kind of hard to improve on that. I guess most people don't wanna shitpost over it. I once knew a quote about some similar situation, about the wisdom of not bothering to say what someone else has already said if they said it better than you can, but I couldn't find it. I did find a Twain quote that is reminiscent, though: "The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. 'tis the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning."

I mean...don't get me wrong, there's a lot of awesome talk here about tattoos that crops up, and now and again there's a thread that takes off, and it's always fun to read. And I think fresh content is good, so I'm not saying that there should never be any. But it's sort of a quality over quantity thing, you know? If you've spent any time lurking at all and checking the older pages...there's just so much there already, and a lot of it is important. There's a lot of wariness here too, because a lot of people do show up who don't lurk, don't learn anything from what's already here (and it's a LOT of stuff to learn). They shitpost constantly and give bad advice, they get mad when people tell them the advice is bad, and then everybody gets tired of trying. Yesterday I caught myself quoting/starting to respond to something in the 'What makes a good tattoo' thread and then I realized it probably wasn't worth it. That kind of thing is what chased off a lot of the people who used to post here...and that was before I got here 3 years ago, even. I lurked for quite a while before I finally posted, just before my first tattoo. I learned so much here that helped me to make a good decision, and in the process I kinda figured out what this place is like. ...-ish. It, like tattooing, seems to have its own culture. It is not like other forums I am on. But since it's about tattooing, that really seems pretty fitting, eh?

People like good content. They value substance over the level of activity. We all like to ogle tattoos in the Latest Tattoo Lowdown -- as @marley mission said not long ago, we could probably have just that thread alone, because I think that's what keeps most people coming back, haha. And it's nice to be amongst people who love something that you love. It's pretty low-key, especially now, but I think people like that. They don't want to reinvent the wheel, they just wanna hang out, and look at/talk about great tattoos.

Edited October 25, 2016 by sophistre

[Charles.M]

Personal attacks are comments directed at the author not the subject of discussion if you look above the thread took a weird turn.... to be criticizing the poster and not continuing on the subject of discussion. What is the point? 

Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

On the other hand constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. The purpose of 'constructive criticism is to improve the outcome.

Constructive debate creates intelligent dialogue, and draws more intelligent dialogue ....on the other hand infighting, only draws trolls who get off on conflict, fueling division and chaos. 

Respecting each other here will go a long way, and creates community.

Opinion definition is "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty"

We are each entitled to our opinions, why not make them constructive.

there is room on this forum for everyone, each to their own interests, however they align. 

With Respect...  
 

 

[oboogie]

No personal attacks. Just trying to figure out why a newbie is doing a survey on something that he has zero control over. It's just odd. The end.