Face/Head Tattoo

[nomadland]

Was searching through the forum and couldn't find a thread on this specifically.

In the process of extending my neck tattoo's up onto the back of my head and maybe in the future extending these to the front of my face.

Just to a nip the inevitable 'the face/head is a huge step', 'will change your life/appearance/people's opinions of you' in the bud, I have over 200 hours of work currently on me including hands, neck and one below my left eye, I know what I getting into.

any others out there with face/head tattoo's or thinking of getting them?

if you do have them what's the pain like? what was the experience like? if not but are planning to get them what designs/styles are you looking at?

Lets have a discussion..

Cheers,

Oz

[Pugilist]

Nope.

[Graeme]

Face tattoos aren't my thing and won't ever be my thing, but you should post up some pictures of your suit. When you started here you were 130 hours in, and you're at over 200 in half a year, and getting it done half way across the world too...that's some crazy progress. I'd love to see it.

[Dog Bite]

I've always wanted one, but I don't think I'll ever actually do it. I've thought about getting a little C/S behind my ear, but that's as high as I'm going.

That's pretty gnarly, man, getting a tattoo on your face. Some people can really pull it off (Corbin would look weird without his, it's like they were always there) but in general I think it's better left undone.

[tatB]

face tattoos aren't for me. even if it is a good tattoo i can't get over the fact that it is on someones face.

but head/scalp tattoos are interesting. specifically japanese wind/water swirls and thomas hooper type stuff.

maybe when i'm old, retired, and going bald.

[abees]

Existing LST thread here -

www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/tattoo-designs-books-flash/1779-facial-tattoos.html

[nomadland]

Face tattoos aren't my thing and won't ever be my thing, but you should post up some pictures of your suit. When you started here you were 130 hours in, and you're at over 200 in half a year, and getting it done half way across the world too...that's some crazy progress. I'd love to see it.

Have in the last 6 months sat for 2 x 3 day sessions..about 30 to 35 hours each..in the process of finishing my back plus left leg and well as a few touch ups on the neck. Progress remains slow as a couple hours on each body part dosent really equal much progress. However given that I have to sit for such long sessions and back to back its the only way pain wise that I can do it. Annoyingly I had to sign a disclaimer which means I don't actually own the rights to my tattoo's, so cant show them until they are published by the artist..but if you PM me id be happy to send you some snaps.

Cheers

Oz.

[Mick Weder]

You had to sign a disclaimer for your tattoos? Man...this world is changing in a direction I just don't understand.

I grew up on the streets hanging out in biker run shops. It was the old time culture that attracted me to the lifestyle. I couldn't even fathom such a request. If a fella said to me but, Mick, do us a fave will ya mate & don't plaster our work all over FB until such and such, I'de say, no worries mate! That's the only disclaimer I'm used to...a mans word. Not having a shot mate, it's just foreign policy to me that's all. I suppose this is what we call the generation gap, but I'm fuckin' glad I grew up in the generation I did man.

Face tattoos. Never for me either. It took me 28 years to hit my hands solid, and that was only working on the old time aspect of the no hands/ face rule unless already suited.

Cliffe Clayton, my original Tattooer back in The Valley @ High Energy Tattoo in the mid 80's said to me one night when I walked in drunk on my 19th birthday asking him to tattoo my left hand..

"Son, ya might not understand this now, but there's gonna be at least one time in your life, just once that ya wished you were never tattooed, and for that one reason, I don't wanna be the man who made you regret that moment"

Now, I was 19, drunk and replied with the usual "she'll be farrrkin right Cliffe" attitude. But that statement stuck with me all my life, and then there came that day which I understood exactly what he meant to which I silently thanked him for it.

His next words to me went along the lines of, "ya got fuckin' 3 seconds to now get out of my shop c*unt before I punch you out the door"

The second wise bit of advice he gave me that night. :)

But ya know. We're all big boys playing in a big boys arena, and if your decision is to tattoo your face Oz, that's your journey. I'de be interested to see & hear what ya got planned mate.

[nomadland]

You had to sign a disclaimer for your tattoos? Man...this world is changing in a direction I just don't understand.

I grew up on the streets hanging out in biker run shops. It was the old time culture that attracted me to the lifestyle. I couldn't even fathom such a request. If a fella said to me but, Mick, do us a fave will ya mate & don't plaster our work all over FB until such and such, I'de say, no worries mate! That's the only disclaimer I'm used to...a mans word. Not having a shot mate, it's just foreign policy to me that's all. I suppose this is what we call the generation gap, but I'm fuckin' glad I grew up in the generation I did man.

Face tattoos. Never for me either. It took me 28 years to hit my hands solid, and that was only working on the old time aspect of the no hands/ face rule unless already suited.

Cliffe Clayton, my original Tattooer back in The Valley @ High Energy Tattoo in the mid 80's said to me one night when I walked in drunk on my 19th birthday asking him to tattoo my left hand..

"Son, ya might not understand this now, but there's gonna be at least one time in your life, just once that ya wished you were never tattooed, and for that one reason, I don't wanna be the man who made you regret that moment"

Now, I was 19, drunk and replied with the usual "she'll be farrrkin right Cliffe" attitude. But that statement stuck with me all my life, and then there came that day which I understood exactly what he meant to which I silently thanked him for it.

His next words to me went along the lines of, "ya got fuckin' 3 seconds to now get out of my shop c*unt before I punch you out the door"

The second wise bit of advice he gave me that night. :)

But ya know. We're all big boys playing in a big boys arena, and if your decision is to tattoo your face Oz, that's your journey. I'de be interested to see & hear what ya got planned mate.

Mick,

I cant speak for all tattoo artists as I have only ever been tattooed by the same guy but I have a feeling my artist is well ahead of the bell curve.

I think he understands that tattooing whilst truly an art form in itself can be branched out into other creative areas. The disclaimer part is a much about publicity as it is about him using my tattoos or their imagery on things like t-shirts, paintings etc and me not suing him saying those images are mine. effectively what the legal disclaimer does is say although its my skin, they are his designs. I think if he'd simply asked me I would have done it anyway, but not everyone in the world is like me and trust me americans love abit of litigation. Think he is just covering his bases.

in regards to the head face tats, think for now im going to work on the suit and leave those areas to last. So probably 10-15 yrs from now...Just wanting to get some advice or discuss with ppl who want them or have them..

[Iwar]

Who's tattooing you @nomadland?

[nomadland]

Who's tattooing you @nomadland?

Jun Cha

https://www.facebook.com/JUNCHApage

JUN CHA

[Mick Weder]

Yeah, I hear ya man, it's just the intricate social network we have created these days. I shake my head at it everyday.

From my very dodgy beginnings, I have managed to weave myself into a Qld Govt full time Managers position. Even I shake my head in disbelief I've been able to manage that. My ultimate middle finger to the establishment...and they can't sack me, cause I'm full time...and I got my fingers and neck smashed in tattoos, and they hate it...and there's nothing they can do...cause they employed me and promoted me haha!, and I cause them grief everyday because of their retarded ways of doing business. I just gotta make sure I do a fuckin' good job...because the day I don't man...haha! I'm gone :) What I'm saying is....I deal everyday in protecting intellectual property for the organisation...so I'm hearing ya Oz...I just don't like the idea of the establishment and an anti establishment culture merging. That's why the only tattoo shows I attend are Club shows and never conventions.

On a side note but, cause I teach legal principles & help manage common law claims against the organisation....Australia is now the leading country in the world...per person/ per capita that launch civil law claims against an individual or company. One would not even condone that thought 20 years ago.

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Jun Cha

https://www.facebook.com/JUNCHApage

JUN CHA

I like how tattooing has created such diverse niches for all different walks of life to enjoy the experience of marking the soul.

For me but, it's the old time fringe of society shops in the bad parts of town that hold dear to my heart.

Nice art but I gotta say.

[nomadland]

On a side note but, cause I teach legal principles & help manage common law claims against the organisation....Australia is now the leading country in the world...per person/ per capita that launch civil law claims against an individual or company. One would not even condone that thought 20 years ago.

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I must say, this is truly disappointing.

to be fair I think the mainstreaming of tattoos whilst doing many negative things has actually increased the quality of the art. I mean design/fine art students are now realizing its possible to make a living doing tattoos and eventually branch that talent out to other creative fields.

I mean Jun didn't go the traditional shop apprenticeship route, he started tattooing himself, went to a fine art school and then apprenticed under jose lopez and baby ray (some of the creators of fine black and grey chicano style). His work is much better for it and his subject matter totally different.

for me I feel this is a huge positive for the tattoo world in general, rather than some bikie who couldn't give two fucks about the tattoo's just wants to collect his $$$

[Mick Weder]

QUOTE]rather than some bikie who couldn't give two fucks about the tattoo's just wants to collect his $$$

This, my friend... is a very bold statement. Some of the most honourable men I know may meet this judgemental opinion.

I wouldn't walk into an art gallery if you paid me. It would bore me to tears.

It appears very apparent that tattooing for you & I hold two completely different cultural origins.

And with that, for respect to this forum, I shall leave this at that. Enjoy your art collection champ.

[nomadland]

QUOTE]rather than some bikie who couldn't give two fucks about the tattoo's just wants to collect his $$$

This, my friend... is a very bold statement. Some of the most honourable men I know may meet this judgemental opinion.

I wouldn't walk into an art gallery if you paid me. It would bore me to tears.

It appears very apparent that tattooing for you & I hold two completely different cultural origins.

And with that, for respect to this forum, I shall leave this at that. Enjoy your art collection champ.

Obviously we disagree on this point and perhaps I painted too broad a brush.

But if you can honestly say the Australian tattoo industry and subsequently the quality of its tattoos hasn't suffered because almost 100% of street shops in the country are controlled or taxed by bikies I think you have your eyes shut.

Yes there are some bikies who dedicated tattoo artists and produce good work but far more often than not they are simply there to make a legal profit.

Though I don't believe everything that is written, this is an illuminating article

Dark secret of Queensland's tattoo industry and link to bikies | News.com.au

[SeeSea]

However given that I have to sit for such long sessions and back to back its the only way pain wise that I can do it. Annoyingly I had to sign a disclaimer which means I don't actually own the rights to my tattoo's, so cant show them until they are published by the artist..but if you PM me id be happy to send you some snaps.

Cheers

Oz.

I'm new to the tattoo scene, but this strikes me as utter horse shit. I would turn around from a tattooer who asked me to do this. I consider this a collaboration - my reference work and his design. I am currently honoring my tattooer's request that I don't tag him in any in-progress photos I post and I have no problem with this. But this notion that you don't actually "own" your tattoos is ridiculous. This isn't exactly a pen-and-ink drawing laid down on some high quality paper you randomly purchased off the internet.

If he is talking about copyright, that's a funny issue. He doesn't have to ask you to sign anything in order to claim the work is copyrighted. My artist can do that right now. Technically in some cases he could claim to hold the copyright for the original work, but he can't sue you unless he's registered it with the Copyright Office (U.S.). It's also very doubtful that your presenting the work would be considered infringing on his copyright because you aren't doing it for profit, and displaying the work doesn't degrade the value of the work itself. (Except if you're displaying it in excessive sunlight without sun protection...now that's an interesting thought...).

This isn't like signing away a copyright to get an article published in a journal for example, because such a journal will often restrict access to the article in order to make money from it (i.e., subscription only or per-article purchase). Without owning copyright, they can't turn a profit. As much as I hate that, we end up having to do that.

Depending on how a contract is worded, he could claim that you don't have the right to take off your shirt in public and display the tattoo at all. Or ever display the tattoo on the internet. He should be more worried about another tattooer stealing it, not targeting you, unless you planned to sell the design to someone else - which is legit to request that you don't do. It's a screwy world. Don't sign any contracts without asking some really serious questions first.

[Mick Weder]

Mate, I'm very far from having my eyes shut, and being provided links to media spin...does not add to my education, thanks all the same.

Although, I don't engage in conversation on topics I have no insight into. There's negative influences in every kind of infrastructure. That's all the elaboration that's required here.

Yes. We do disagree, and again...we'll just leave this at that...with respect.

[nomadland]

I'm new to the tattoo scene, but this strikes me as utter horse shit. I would turn around from a tattooer who asked me to do this. I consider this a collaboration - my reference work and his design. I am currently honoring my tattooer's request that I don't tag him in any in-progress photos I post and I have no problem with this. But this notion that you don't actually "own" your tattoos is ridiculous. This isn't exactly a pen-and-ink drawing laid down on some high quality paper you randomly purchased off the internet.

If he is talking about copyright, that's a funny issue. He doesn't have to ask you to sign anything in order to claim the work is copyrighted. My artist can do that right now. Technically in some cases he could claim to hold the copyright for the original work, but he can't sue you unless he's registered it with the Copyright Office (U.S.). It's also very doubtful that your presenting the work would be considered infringing on his copyright because you aren't doing it for profit, and displaying the work doesn't degrade the value of the work itself. (Except if you're displaying it in excessive sunlight without sun protection...now that's an interesting thought...).

This isn't like signing away a copyright to get an article published in a journal for example, because such a journal will often restrict access to the article in order to make money from it (i.e., subscription only or per-article purchase). Without owning copyright, they can't turn a profit. As much as I hate that, we end up having to do that.

Depending on how a contract is worded, he could claim that you don't have the right to take off your shirt in public and display the tattoo at all. Or ever display the tattoo on the internet. He should be more worried about another tattooer stealing it, not targeting you, unless you planned to sell the design to someone else - which is legit to request that you don't do. It's a screwy world. Don't sign any contracts without asking some really serious questions first.

tbh, I signed the contract over 6 years ago, so the details are hazy..

some of it had to with copyright, others had to do with health disclaimers and about another whole page of stuff. Whilst I agree with your sentiments I guess it just the price of getting a tattoo of said artist. If you don't want to sign it, then don't get the tattoo I guess.

My guess is this practice will become more common going forward as legal requirements become more stringent regarding a whole host of things..

[Graeme]

I agree with @Mick Weder and @SeeSea here and with regard to copyright, looking at pictures of Jun Cha's tattoos it looks like a lot of them draw on reference from Renaissance sculpture. Of course there's interpretation there, composing it to work as a tattoo, actually tattooing it, etc., but regardless it isn't like his tattoos spring purely from his imagination. When contracts and the possibility of lawyers is involved, it isn't really tattooing anymore to me.

[SeeSea]

There is already action afoot after the Mike Tyson tattoo thing, and professional sports players are being asked to address this before they get a tattoo. Tattooers want to claim that the work is being displayed during games without their recognition, with some thought that the player is somehow making money from it.

But in the case below, I have to agree with the artist with regard to the character waking up with a replica of Tyson's tattoo:

Tyson’s tattoo is widely credited with sparking the issue after his tattoo artist, S. Victor Whitmill, sued Warner Bros. for copyright infringement over the use of Tyson’s tattoo in the movie The Hangover: Part II. In the film, a character becomes intoxicated and wakes up with a replica of Tyson’s tattoo on his face.

Warner Bros. had argued in part that the depiction of the tattoo was simply parody and protected as fair use. But the judge in the Tyson tattoo case disagreed. “This use of the tattoo did not comment on the artist’s work or have any critical bearing on the original composition,” she said. “There was no change to this tattoo or any parody of the tattoo itself.”

The case ultimately settled out of court.

Tattoo artists are asserting their copyright claims

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tbh, I signed the contract over 6 years ago, so the details are hazy..

some of it had to with copyright, others had to do with health disclaimers and about another whole page of stuff. Whilst I agree with your sentiments I guess it just the price of getting a tattoo of said artist. If you don't want to sign it, then don't get the tattoo I guess.

My guess is this practice will become more common going forward as legal requirements become more stringent regarding a whole host of things..

There is no reason you can't ask the contract to be revised to have assigned to yourself some degree of limited use license while the tattooer retains ownership of the copyright. This could specifically address the Tyson-like issues and specifically allow a person wearing the tattoo to go about their daily life without threat of future lawsuit if they happen to choose to do something that reveals the tattoo to an extended audience, god forbid, in the course of their making money doing something that has nothing to do with the tattoo. This is a scary specter.

Here's a wonderful gray area - I model in a swimsuit and the photos clearly show my back tattoo. Can my tattooer claim a cut? If it's in a tattoo magazine and I get paid, perhaps he's got a claim. I dunno. At a minimum he should get written credit. If it's in Sports Illustrated, I would think not. Although if I could actually get into Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, I'd gladly give him credit and a cut!!!

[nomadland]

There is already action afoot after the Mike Tyson tattoo thing, and professional sports players are being asked to address this before they get a tattoo. Tattooers want to claim that the work is being displayed during games without their recognition, with some thought that the player is somehow making money from it.

But in the case below, I have to agree with the artist with regard to the character waking up with a replica of Tyson's tattoo:

Tattoo artists are asserting their copyright claims

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There is no reason you can't ask the contract to be revised to have assigned to yourself some degree of limited use license while the tattooer retains ownership of the copyright. This could specifically address the Tyson-like issues and specifically allow a person wearing the tattoo to go about their daily life without threat of future lawsuit if they happen to choose to do something that reveals the tattoo to an extended audience, god forbid, in the course of their making money doing something that has nothing to do with the tattoo. This is a scary specter.

Here's a wonderful gray area - I model in a swimsuit and the photos clearly show my back tattoo. Can my tattooer claim a cut? If it's in a tattoo magazine and I get paid, perhaps he's got a claim. I dunno. At a minimum he should get written credit. If it's in Sports Illustrated, I would think not. Although if I could actually get into Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, I'd gladly give him credit and a cut!!!

To be fair to Jun as id like to think I no him well, I don't think he would ever use it in the ways you are suggesting are possible, it was as I said more of legal disclaimer regarding health issues etc rather than about copyright, ownership etc. Although this of course was included.

I totally agree with your points and scary thoughts though, but perhaps its just a sign of the times.

[Pugilist]

Face tattoos. Never for me either. It took me 28 years to hit my hands solid, and that was only working on the old time aspect of the no hands/ face rule unless already suited.

I agree with the skepticism over the legal stuff, but I also wanted to highlight this point that @Mick Weder made. Why does everyone want everything so fast these days?

[SeeSea]

I agree with the skepticism over the legal stuff, but I also wanted to highlight this point that @Mick Weder made. Why does everyone want everything so fast these days?

But daddy, I want an Oompa Loompa now!

[Pugilist]

Best movie!

[CultExciter]

@Graeme you beat me to my point.

Doing a mashup of roman/greek and renaissance sculpture doesn't make it his designs.