Feminism & Tattoos

[Jaycel Adkins]

Creepy people suck, MsRad.

Connected to the thread topic title, there is a new blog up, I am not sure if anyone has seen it.

Here is a link:

http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/blogs/dringenberg-and-co/221-making-your-mark-tattoo-history-books.html

I am new, but I kinda think the blogs get little attention (given the scarcity of comments) for some reason, but this one I think lines up well with this thread. First time I have seen it.

Best

[Valerie Vargas]

my role as a female tattooer has been in my thoughts a lot recently.

i work hard to be the best i can as a decent human being and as a good tattooer. i feel like my work defines a large part of myself. if i work hard and good comes from it then i feel rewarded. i'm aware of being a woman, at work, walking down the street, etc,,, being taken seriously is very important to me.

sometimes i will get younger girls tell me i am a role model to them and i just dont know what to say to that! i hope that it's because they can see the hard work put in and they can see that it does pay off regardless of gender. that you don't need your tits hanging out to get you noticed! if anything i certainly dont think that type of behaviour helps the plight of the 'female' tattooer. i've lost count of the times i've heard people say 'good, for a girl' while growing up and it definitely had an effect on me at an early age.

[Ursula]

sometimes i will get younger girls tell me i am a role model to them and i just dont know what to say to that! i hope that it's because they can see the hard work put in and they can see that it does pay off regardless of gender. that you don't need your tits hanging out to get you noticed! if anything i certainly dont think that type of behaviour helps the plight of the 'female' tattooer. i've lost count of the times i've heard people say 'good, for a girl' while growing up and it definitely had an effect on me at an early age.

Thank you for not being a whore who's getting known in the art work by opening her legs. For that reason (and because on top of that you're an amazing artist) I have nothing but respect.

It really sucks that women get shoved to the side in the art word for the most part. I see people blog about embroideries all day long that are horrible and are just being noticed because a man made them and men 'aren't supposed to take an interest in needlecraft'. So what about the women who do it and do it way better, why no recognition for them? I feel like this happens in the tattoo world as well. I know shops that won't hire women for any job, even toilet scrubber.

Anyways, Valerie, you are a true compliment to women in art. Don't change!

[sleepy mel]

Fantastic thread just on quick observation why do certain types of tattoo magazines insist on only putting young girls wearing very little on the cover, often the cover models seem to have relatively few tattoos as well.Im sure there are lots of men with fantastic work as well as older women it would be nice to see some people like this on magazine covers.

[Raskolnikov]

There was a lot of debate about that subject on another tattoo forum, and from what I can remember it came down simply to economic reasons. Tattoo magazines sell better when they have a scantily-clad, relatively young woman on the cover. Very pathetic and depressing, but more than that it highlights the issue of ethics and boundaries. Clearly there are certain things that those magazines will not do for sales, so why is a pattern of only having one type of tattooed person on their covers ok?

Obviously some tattoo magazines do not do this, but the ones that continue to only have one type of person on the cover are projecting a nasty lack of diversity, in my opinion.

[Scott R]

not to belittle your experiences, but could it also be that you draw attention because you are attractive? do you think ugly girls get approached about their tattoos or ignored in general...

i know the above sounds shallow but i notice men will come up with ANY reason to talk to pretty girls.

I have been taking note of good work regardless of who its on lately. I found myself checking out a 300 lber on the treadmill the other day. she had some scratcher stuff on her back but her chest(collar bone) was nicely done and I asked her who did it. I kept it short but figure if its out in the open Its for me to see and ok to ask who did it

[gougetheeyes]

my role as a female tattooer has been in my thoughts a lot recently.

i work hard to be the best i can as a decent human being and as a good tattooer. i feel like my work defines a large part of myself. if i work hard and good comes from it then i feel rewarded. i'm aware of being a woman, at work, walking down the street, etc,,, being taken seriously is very important to me.

sometimes i will get younger girls tell me i am a role model to them and i just dont know what to say to that! i hope that it's because they can see the hard work put in and they can see that it does pay off regardless of gender. that you don't need your tits hanging out to get you noticed! if anything i certainly dont think that type of behaviour helps the plight of the 'female' tattooer. i've lost count of the times i've heard people say 'good, for a girl' while growing up and it definitely had an effect on me at an early age.

There are a ton of ladies doing killer tattoos! Yourself obviously, Cristina Garcia, Rose Hardy, Marina Inoue, Annie Frenzel (whose work I was introduced to by Shawn on his OV blog), Sarah Schor, Katie Sellergren, Lizzie at Speakeasy who's on here, the list goes on.. Rough that you've had to overcome the "good, for a girl" mentality, but at least you've been able to essentially CRUSH it into the ground.

Lady tattooer thread anyone..?

[Valerie Vargas]

there's probably no need for a female tattooer thread. i tend to steer away from 'all-girl' events, ive been asked to be part of all girl tattoo projects (art shows, books etc) and conventions but personally i feel that in certain cases all that does is not strengthen female artistry or bonds, its a selling point for perverts or people who think female tattooers 'have a gentler touch'.

ive had a couple of instances where i'm simply not comfortable tattooing a man whether it's just due to their topics of conversation, pervy remarks or general air about them. even when women hit real hard of men tattooers its just never as creepy as when a guy does it to a woman, it's just a different type of uneasiness. my response to this is usually to be forward and serious and to let them know it wont be tolerated, and if it continues i make my excuses to not tattoo them, i dont enjoy feeling uncomfortable in my own turf.

about the magazine covers. women are pretty to look at, you put a woman on a cover you will sell double what you would if you put a man instead. magazines are businesses and they like to make money. back in the early 90's you could still buy a tattoo magazine with men on the cover every now and then but i guess when today you have hundreds of young, gorgeous, tattooed girls (some of them not even wanting a pay cheque just the glory of being on the cover is good enough for them) queuing up to be your cover girl who's gonna care about being more equal?

[LilMountain]

As a man I never considered these issues, if anything I have always had the assumption that women with a lot of body art were more tough/bitchy than slutty (perhaps a different stereotype?) but not to an excessive degree that made them bad people in any way...

[Daggboy]

I think this is a great discussion to have and good on everyone for joining in!

Women are seen are more approachable, have less boundaries, to be "nicer", so a woman with large work is seen more as a publicly accessible "thing". Add to that the perception that only bad or wild girls get big tattoos and you've got a double reason to touch, ask, stare, whatever. Tattoos on men on the other hand have mostly been perceived as dangerous, crime related and therefore tough - which promotes the opposite response by the public!

I'm a small guy with visible coverage and ironically no one grabs me really or stares and if they look for too long and I don't like it, I give them a "what're you looking at" questioning nod that usually stops it. Amazing really if you think about it. I really like what Margaret Cho once said about women with tattoos: “I love heavily tattooed women. I imagine their lives are filled with sensuality and excess, madness and generosity, impulsive natures and fights. They look like they have endured much pain and sadness, yet have the ability to transcend all of it by documenting it on the body”. I felt that way about heavily tattooed people for a long time and before I got heavily tattooed, and I like that fantasy. Now I have lots of tattoos, I KNOW I'm the same boring $%)%^ as before!

[irezumi]

Fantastic thread just on quick observation why do certain types of tattoo magazines insist on only putting young girls wearing very little on the cover, often the cover models seem to have relatively few tattoos as well.Im sure there are lots of men with fantastic work as well as older women it would be nice to see some people like this on magazine covers.

sex sells. no offense intended, but this is not a question anyone should need to ask.

[Dashenka]

I currently have no tattoos, but in the years that I've been considering them, this is something I've given a lot of thought to. I'm sad to say that at one point, I even thought to myself, "What will my future husband think of my tattoos?" and of course, "What will my employer think?" Since I'm already at a disadvantage because I am a young woman, and pretty inexperienced in the work force, it is scary to think about how getting tattoos might affect me when it comes to getting a job. Then I realized this: my tattoos are for me and no one else. So why should I have to consider what anyone else is going to think of them? If I decided to throw away my personal desire to adorn my body with art because of any outside influence, I would just be perpetuating the inequality! I believe that I have every right to get tattooed, regardless of my gender, and that I have every right to get a job that I am qualified for, regardless of my appearance.

[CultExciter]

@Dashenka, life is very very short. We might as well do the things that make us happy.

[Hogrider]

I believe that I have every right to get tattooed, regardless of my gender.

Correct.

I have every right to get a job that I am qualified for, regardless of my appearance.

Wrong. Unfortunately when you have visible tattoos, you put yourself at the mercy of the person who's doing the hiring's prejudices. You may have the best qualifications of all the candidates, and still not get hired. It may not be fair, but that's how it is.

[Dashenka]

You said yourself, "It may not be fair." I realize that's the way it is, all I'm saying is that it isn't fair and I'm not going to let it stop me from getting tattooed. I don't have to submit to their prejudices.

[slayer9019]

Wrong. Unfortunately when you have visible tattoos, you put yourself at the mercy of the person who's doing the hiring's prejudices. You may have the best qualifications of all the candidates, and still not get hired. It may not be fair, but that's how it is.

Being someone that has been on the hiring side, tattoos or not you are at the mercy of the other person's prejudices and opinions. Between me talking with other hiring personnel and thinking about candidates, I can say I've caught some weird prejudices about people during hiring. Although sometimes what is accepted as a normally good trait, sometimes can but a negative. In my sister's field someone that comes off as more bubbly and "creative" (whatever that means) will get picked over a stiff in a suit, but the opposite is in my field. Crew cut hair and expensive suits rule my world.

[Hogrider]

Being someone that has been on the hiring side, tattoos or not you are at the mercy of the other person's prejudices and opinions. Between me talking with other hiring personnel and thinking about candidates, I can say I've caught some weird prejudices about people during hiring. Although sometimes what is accepted as a normally good trait, sometimes can but a negative. In my sister's field someone that comes off as more bubbly and "creative" (whatever that means) will get picked over a stiff in a suit, but the opposite is in my field. Crew cut hair and expensive suits rule my world.

Good point, even though I have a sleeve and pony tail, I'm an IT manager. All other things being equal, I'll hire someone who looks like they can think outside the box over some clean-cut, kiss-ass weenie in dockers and a polo shirt. Stick it to the man!

[SnowyPlover]

I started getting tattooed as a young woman. There are lots of places to start getting tattooed without being visible in a professional setting. I started with areas that are easily covered (the back) and slowly added more visible ones over the years (and years). People tend to be judge-y, but you don't live your life for them because it will always be something.

And you can't worry about what your future husband will think; hell, I have a "squidthong" and still found love.

[Delicious]

I have been thinking about this alot lately.

It has, over the years, become more and more acceptable for a woman to have tattoos, and to be heavily tattooed... In my community, lots and lots of young women get heavily tattooed (usually with garage garbage starting in high school), or they get visibly tattooed. it is considered normal. But, there still is a stigma to being a tattooed woman, even one as lightly tattooed as myself.

With my grand total of three tattoos, when people see my chest, its ooh's and ah's and where did you get that done?

but on the flip side, I've had people ask me, what will your children think? How will you look in your wedding dress? What man will find you, obese with tattoos, attractive?

I, planning on becoming more and more tattooed (but never heavily tattooed, just not my thing), feel like in the eyes of the world, when we get tattooed, especially in visible places, we are surrendering our femininity in the eyes of our peers.

My father and brother both said my chest tattoo was too big... though it only covers the front of my shoulder. Girls who get their chest plate done, a sleeve of tattoos, are all at the mercy of our peers, who degrade us for being "trendy"and not truly feminine.

But isn't this decoration of our body seizing and controlling our sexuality and femininity? This has parallels, in my opinion, to the current contraception/abortion debate.

Not that they are morally equivalent, but that each appears to be an attack on a woman's autonomy of her body and her own control of her sexuality.

I get the impression, especially with my field of interest (Political Science), that tattoos are for people who are ok with being somehow "lesser", and for men. Lesser, in the sense that those who get tattooed come from a pretentious side, and won't amount to anything, or that they are low class. And that tattoos are for men, because a woman with an arm tattoo is a big "dyke", that a woman's tattoo is pretty and small and soft, but never visible. But men can get tattoos with impunity, for they have been the realm of men for a long time.

Tattoos are becoming more and more common among the population in general, and more and more acceptable. But we are held back by what a woman is "supposed" to look like. This is one facet of the struggle of the modern American woman. She must be traditionally feminine, want a family, look the part... But with the rise of equality for women, now we are supposed to go out, get high paying careers, make our mark on the world, be as successful and intellectual as men... These are contradictory demands. We have this cult of ultimate womanhood, ultimate motherhood, that has no room for tattoos, no room for ugliness, no room for personal freedom. The ultimate woman in our society is a devoted mother, who is totally involved in every aspect of her children's lives, who looks pretty on the outside, with nothing deviating from the norm. No visible tattoos, a normal hairstyle, clothes that fit the contemporary mold.

We are taught by our society we must fit into this womanhood, this being, in order to be a good woman. But now, we must both be what we want to be, and what society wants to perceive us as. It's a complex issue. Tattooing is becoming more acceptable, but, in my opinion, still held back by traditional values and norms for women.

[McCaul]

With me being fairly heavily covered, having arms and hands me being a guy I've never really had negative reactions. My fiancé has recently gotten a rather large dahlia flower with a skeleton key on her shoulder, very clean and bright colored. She also has gotten lots of good reactions towards it, and we live in Montana...Where there isn't a ton of heavily tattooed people (atleast compared to places like Cali, NYC etc.) I think it's gotten better, atleast around here. But, at the same time... we don't hear what everyone is saying. I don't get why people still have it instilled into their minds, that only men "can" or "should" be heavily covered. It's the same principal, one human being with tattoos. Simple.

[TrixieFaux]

I'm a devoted mom & wife, a kindergarten teacher with a master's degree in education, and am working on my 7th tattoo (this one being the biggest so far, covering 3/4 of my left arm). Living in LA, I rarely get a second look even when I'm in a tank top--one thing I love about this place. On a list of 50 reasons why LA rocks I recently read online here's #45: Moms and dads with Black Flag t-shirts and neck tattoos, pushing shopping carts and strollers, and getting into mini-vans. I thought that was pretty funny & true.

As for those who don't like tattoos on women or tattoos in general, good! Helps us weed out the a-holes. I've always liked to be at least a little outside the mainstream anyway. If they don't have anything nice to say, they should stfu as far as I'm concerned.

As for those who ask you what will your future children think @Delicious, I can tell you my daughter loves mine and my husband's. How obnoxious. Tell them to wait while you take out your crystal ball. Haha.

[Pugilist]

I have a lot of OPINIONS on the myriad of ways that tattoo culture can still be really shitty to women, but rather than going on a rant about that right now, I will say this:

Because it can indeed be kind of isolating being an (increasingly) heavily tattooed woman, one of the best things I have gotten out of my participation on this board has been the space to interact with, and "get to know", other articulate, thoughtful and cool tattooed women. I adore a lot of folks around here, but being able to connect with other ladies is particularly valuable and enriching, since I think being tattooed is accompanied by some unique stuff for us. So I am really grateful for this space and for everything I've learned from other women in the tattoo world.

[alice]

When I was working service industry jobs, I would frequently be stopped by customers who wanted me to stand still (while holding hot food en route to a table!) so they could inspect my tattoos, people would grab me and try to touch my tattoos constantly. Almost always older men, but sometimes women! My husband is heavily tattooed and other than the occasional "sick ink, bro!" he has never been accosted the way that i have. The worst thing about something like that happening at work is that you are trapped and you have to be nice, even if people are being totally inappropriate. I used to complain that if i were a stripper, at least i'd have a bouncer who'd boot the jerks trying to grab me.

working in service jobs in a more affluent neighborhood also brought to my attention the fact that a lot of square, office-type dudes definitely have a sense of exoticism about tattoos, like "ooh you look just like a suicide girl!" like i'm supposed to be this available babe who loves taking her clothes off because i have a lot of highly visible tattoos. nope, sorry bro. i'm a married mom, just like your wife. calm down.

[David Flores]

When I was working service industry jobs, I would frequently be stopped by customers who wanted me to stand still (while holding hot food en route to a table!) so they could inspect my tattoos, people would grab me and try to touch my tattoos constantly. Almost always older men, but sometimes women! My husband is heavily tattooed and other than the occasional "sick ink, bro!" he has never been accosted the way that i have. The worst thing about something like that happening at work is that you are trapped and you have to be nice, even if people are being totally inappropriate. I used to complain that if i were a stripper, at least i'd have a bouncer who'd boot the jerks trying to grab me.

working in service jobs in a more affluent neighborhood also brought to my attention the fact that a lot of square, office-type dudes definitely have a sense of exoticism about tattoos, like "ooh you look just like a suicide girl!" like i'm supposed to be this available babe who loves taking her clothes off because i have a lot of highly visible tattoos. nope, sorry bro. i'm a married mom, just like your wife. calm down.

If it makes you feel better I have been accosted by quite a few middle aged women here in the Portland area, although not so much on the job. I have never seen it as a sexual advance but still becomes kind of an awkward interaction. But honestly since I moved to North Portland I can't recall anyone asking me about or even acknowledging me being tattooed. It was always when I went downtown or ventured farther west that I encountered these people.

[Dhopper]

I like to repeat a story a buddy told me. He said "My friend was at the grocery store and while in line, a woman grabbed his arm and started looking at his tattoos. So, he grabbed her breasts! She yelled at him, "You have no right touching me! How dare you!" He goes and says you are right! Just like you have not right grabbing me!"

Just remember people are dumb and try to roll with it.