Question about traditional flash

[Synesthesia]

I had the idea recently to devote part of my body to a few really classic flash pieces (inspired by some Dan Higgs flash I fell in love with!), but am unsure of how exactly the process works. If I were to bring in a classic piece of flash to a shop and say I wanted that done, is that frowned upon if they don't have the flash sheet in the shop? I don't want to seem disrespectful to anyone by asking them to just copy a picture of flash they don't have, that almost seems like cheating in my mind I guess! But I would think these kind of classic images are almost like public domain at this point. And what about modern flash? :confused:

[deadsp0t]

I don't think it'd be unusual for someone to bring in piece of flash, nor do I think it'd be disrespectful.

I've brought in other ppls flash and asked to have it tattooed, but I also have always ok'd artistic liberty with colors and design.. The artist I see has done 5 pieces on me now and I trust his vision and ability and he knows I won't flip out if he changes a design/flash I choose..

I'm not a tattooer, a tattooer may chime in and tell I'm wrong, and I may be but this has been my exp.

[Graeme]

I had the idea recently to devote part of my body to a few really classic flash pieces (inspired by some Dan Higgs flash I fell in love with!), but am unsure of how exactly the process works. If I were to bring in a classic piece of flash to a shop and say I wanted that done, is that frowned upon if they don't have the flash sheet in the shop? I don't want to seem disrespectful to anyone by asking them to just copy a picture of flash they don't have, that almost seems like cheating in my mind I guess! But I would think these kind of classic images are almost like public domain at this point. And what about modern flash? :confused:

Are you talking about flash that you purchased, or of pictures that you printed from the internet? Because there's a difference.

[deadsp0t]

Are you talking about flash that you purchased' date=' or of pictures that you printed from the internet? Because there's a difference.[/quote']

Why? I've brought in flash from the internet and asked that it be tattooed.. It's always been been slightly reworked, but not once frowned upon.

[irezumi]

If your artist doesn't know who Higgs is or doesn't have any of his/her own reference for it, and it's probably not the right artist to get the piece of Higgs flash from. The right vibe just won't be there.

[CultExciter]

It's a faux pas for sure. You would want to go somewhere who could encapsulate the vibe, or hell, might even know the man personally. Otherwise, you might lose the soul of the tattoo. There is so much more Higgs flash than what you can find on the internet. Go somewhere that has real copies of it.

[Graeme]

Why? I've brought in flash from the internet and asked that it be tattooed.. It's always been been slightly reworked, but not once frowned upon.

Why? Because flash is a source of income for tattooers, and not just designs that you can take for free.

[deadsp0t]

Why? Because flash is a source of income for tattooers' date=' and not just designs that you can take for free.[/quote'] Right.. I get that and agree to some extent.. Now, let's be honest here. Ppl walk in tattoo shops daily across the globe with copies of flash pulled from the inter webs on daily basis and have them tattooed.

Countless ppl have Sailor Jerry and Ed Hardy flash tattooed on them, including me. I pulled a SJ anchor offline brought it in and my tattooer has the SJ books.. Do I need to send his estate a royalty check?

As a tattooer, if you are going to make your living tattooing other ppls flash, you owe the original artist the respect of purchasing the book. As a customer, it's an unreasonable expectation that I should drop the coin on the flash book.. These books from established artists are not cheap and may cost as much or more then the one tattoo you desire.. That's unreasonable IMO.

[tatB]

I think this is an very interesting topic. I think most of us agree that online photos of modern flash is a no no. But what about old traditional flash that is seen everywhere and has been repainted hundreds of thousands of times? Which category does Higgs' flash fall into?

What if I want an Ed Hardy inspired dragon? Do either the artist or I need to own legitimate copies of the flash to follow proper etiquette? What about a rose/panther morph? Do I need Ed's permission? Does he get a percentage of every rose/panther morph?

Disclaimer: @Graeme your rose/panther morph is awesome and don't take this as a personal attack, just trying to stimulate quality discussion and I know I can count on you to make well thought out post.

[CultExciter]

I think...and I hesitate as I form my thoughts, that internet images are fine for "jumping off " points, and sure people tattoo that shit everyday, but if we are promoting quality tattooing, then we need to discuss what should be ideal. Bring in something off the internet, fine, but also let your tattoo artist guide you in the right direction, to where the image is sourced from, to other ideas that aren't so simply printed from a 20 second Google search. If your tattooer doesn't know his/her history or has no interest in it, and is simply ok with just replicating what you bring in on a piece of 30# ink jet paper, then maybe that is a bigger issue. Quality begets quality. The opposite also applies.

[Graeme]

@BrianH With my rose morph I didn't supply Chad with any pictures. I told him that I wanted a panther rose, kind of like that famous Hardy backpiece, knowing that he would know what I wanted. Chad drew it on me with Sharpie. It was pretty amazing to see him just draw something like that on with no reference, but that's why I wanted Chad to do that tattoo.

Basically, I agree with @CultExciter here about wanting to promote the best in tattooing. Sure, people are bringing in things they printed off the Internet to get tattooed, but there are also tons of people who want words tattooed upside down and I don't think we should talk about and promote that as an idea here either. And sure, there's plenty of grey area here too. Sailor Jerry stuff is maybe one thing, but the mention of "modern flash" in the original post bothers me. Anyway what I think about this stuff doesn't count for much.

[deadsp0t]

I think...and I hesitate as I form my thoughts' date=' that internet images are fine for "jumping off " points, and sure people tattoo that shit everyday, but if we are promoting quality tattooing, then we need to discuss what should be ideal. Bring in something off the internet, fine, but also let your tattoo artist guide you in the right direction, to where the image is sourced from, to other ideas that aren't so simply printed from a 20 second Google search. If your tattooer doesn't know his/her history or has no interest in it, and is simply ok with just replicating what you bring in on a piece of 30# ink jet paper, then maybe that is a bigger issue. Quality begets quality. The opposite also applies.[/quote']

Agreed.. I always give my artist 'artistic liberty' with colors and design. Every design I've brought in has been changed to some extent. I've posted several times that agree with the thought process that says the artists vision for your tattoo is part of what you're paying for, but much further down that path leans off topic a bit.

I think over thinking this is easy, but not required.

Like stated, if your artist doesn't have the flash book or knowledge of the flash and the artist, there's a good chance you are in the wrong shop.

If a customer wants several pieces out of a particular book it may be a wise investment to purchase said book, but I think even then it leans towards an unreasonable expectation of a normal customer.

Like I said before, if an artist is going to make a living of another artists flash he/she should def purchase the flash.

Here's a question for our resident tattooers..

Have any of you turned a customer away because they came with a piece of flash printed of the net?

I like the idea of ideal situations but I also like real exp and realistic expectations.

[deadsp0t]

@BrianH With my rose morph I didn't supply Chad with any pictures. I told him that I wanted a panther rose' date=' kind of like that famous Hardy backpiece, knowing that he would know what I wanted. Chad drew it on me with Sharpie. It was pretty amazing to see him just draw something like that on with no reference, but that's why I wanted Chad to do that tattoo. Basically, I agree with @CultExciter here about wanting to promote the best in tattooing. Sure, people are bringing in things they printed off the Internet to get tattooed, but there are also tons of people who want words tattooed upside down and I don't think we should talk about and promote that as an idea here either. And sure, there's plenty of grey area here too. Sailor Jerry stuff is maybe one thing, but the mention of "modern flash" in the original post bothers me. Anyway what I think about this stuff doesn't count for much.[/quote']

You have insightful posts, your opinion is a valuable. You and don't always agree but I def appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain on subjects like this :cool:

[Graeme]

You have insightful posts, your opinion is a valuable. You and don't always agree but I def appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain on subjects like this :cool:

Thank you. I just mean that this conversation does touch on the business of tattooing and while I may have thoughts and opinions on things, I don't tattoo, tattoos aren't how I pay my bills and put food on my table, so I don't think that my opinion should carry much weight.

[irezumi]

I'd like to see every tattooer that has ever worked in a street shop pay Evil Don and Crowe $.25 for each one of their flash they've done.

[jimstanley]

I get the feeling that if it's being used as a reference it doesn't particularly matter. You could probably even get a tattoo without bringing in any flash (someone said something about tattoos needing to be describable in four words or less).

Aside from that I agree with Irezumi, if they don't have the flash in the shop, why should you want them to tattoo it? Seems like theres some kind of trading system between tattooers for flash, and I'd leave it up to that system to handle.

[Synesthesia]

Maybe the Higgs mention wasn't the best idea. The Higgs flash in particular was just what inspired me (it was the first time I thought "I'd get that with zero alterations"), and after doing some more looking around, I found some other pieces of flash that I got the same gut reaction from. Most of them were from the Sailor Jerry era, which is kind of what I was primarily referring to. Designs that are really timeless and classic and popular that I would want as true to the original art as possible. With something like that, I'd assume most reputable shops would have Sailor Jerry stuff on the walls. But maybe they don't have the exact ship I want, for example. Is it okay to bring in that particular piece in case they don't have it on the walls? I would have to travel over an hour to get to the shop I had in mind that specializes in traditional, and it would suck to get all the way there and they say they can't do it because they don't have that particular flash. And I didn't know if it was discouraged to bring in your own (print out, I don't own any flash). And I had no idea if the same standards that applied to classic flash applied to modern flash, hence the mention of modern stuff. I'm glad I got some discussion going though, I was afraid everyone would be like "No, DUH" and the thread would instantly die. :D

[Colored Guy]

I had a tattoo done that came from a piece of artwork. I knew who the originator was and I contacted him to see how much he wanted to sell me a stencil or line drawing of what I wanted.

His response was that he sent me a very good picture of it and only wanted a picture of the finished tattoo in return, which I did. I'd feel bad if I walked into a shop with a blatant ripoff of someone else's hard work.

Rob

[deadsp0t]

This an interesting topic for discussion for sure.

I read in another thread about a similar topic that an artist may be flattered by their art being rendered as a tattoo.. Thought provoking to me.

Would using art originally unintended to be tattoo flash be different?

It would be very interesting to hear the opinion and thoughts of an artist or tattooer that is firmly established and at least semi successful from selling drawings and or flash.

I would hold their opinion in higher regard then my own.

[CABS]

I had the idea recently to devote part of my body to a few really classic flash pieces (inspired by some Dan Higgs flash I fell in love with!), but am unsure of how exactly the process works. If I were to bring in a classic piece of flash to a shop and say I wanted that done, is that frowned upon if they don't have the flash sheet in the shop? I don't want to seem disrespectful to anyone by asking them to just copy a picture of flash they don't have, that almost seems like cheating in my mind I guess! But I would think these kind of classic images are almost like public domain at this point. And what about modern flash? :confused:

To answer the original question, if the shop you're in doesn't have the aforementioned Higgs flash, then you're probably in the wrong shop.

Or just say you want a "Higgs mummy" or "Higgs druid" or "Higgs bat", etc. I'm hoping the tattooer will know what you're talking about.

At the same time, I would want someone that's stoked on Higgs to do the tattoo as well, or like others mentioned, someone that may even know him.

There are tons of tattoos I want in the new Eleven Fourteen book, the Zeis book, the new Great Unknown book, 400 Flash from Rodin and Miller, etc. I haven't bought those books, but I wouldn't lift any of those images off the Internet neither. If I see flash that I really like, I'm just gonna track down that tattooer and get tattooed by them. Or hopefully the shop I'm at has the books and I could just pick out an image from there.

Totally rambling at this point.

[Jennifer Stell]

There is most definitely a "vibe" or "resonance" with anything Higg-ish... If the tattooer doesn't know the art off the top of their head or the shop doesn't have the actual real flash, I would say, "bad vibe"...

Higgs is a language, you wouldn't wan't someone that can't understand or speak the language to go interpreting something completely foreign on your skin for you, especially, if YOU know what you want.

[Hospitelli]

I wouldn't want to get an original Higgs design from a tattoo artist unless they owned that particular flash. There is a diffence between getting a direct copy of it line for line color for color or getting something that is inspired by it where the artist can use that for reference and come up with his own design.

[dari]

Interesting discussion, kinda wish Dan Higgs would weigh in.....

[RobBob]

if the artist doesnt know who dan higgs is and doesnt have his flash on the walls you should find a new shop

[slayer9019]

While there are some really cool pieces of flash I'd love to get tattooed, I'd really want to get it tattooed by the artist that did it. If it is impossible (retired, or no longer alive), I have a hellva good excuse to buy some more books. I love having new books, and sometimes my wallet needs justification.