Hello from a virgin canvas.

[HettyKet]

Yes. Gut, exactly.

(@hogg - there's a large cockerel on a chaps thigh and another but with a scull on a calf on the instagram of my artist - that's the chicken version of the botanical style I want. IYSWIM)

[HettyKet]

<snip>

That plant you posted..not really my style, nor does it seem to be in the style of the traditional tattoos you seem to favor.

<snip>

The part coloured plant was meant as an example of how botanical illustrations have been part coloured, traditionally. this: http://pinterest.com/pin/270708627574631074/ would probably have been a better example TBH. Not that it's am idea I'm set on. Far from it, I like it but worry it could be gimmicky or just plan wrong. I'm pretty sure that although I'm thinking black and grey with maybe, maybe, maybe a bit of colour a big part the final decision will lay with the artist and the final design - I may well end up with full on colour yet...

(UPDATED)

Ah right, I've manged to a couple examples of botanically correct stuff getting towards the right flavour.

http://adambarton.com/Tattoo.html#17

http://adambarton.com/Tattoo.html#14

http://lonsdaletattoo.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/mark-lonsdale-tattoo-small-flower-and-bow.jpg

https://sphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/14474_621278771246398_847364976_n.jpg

http://tattoo-designs-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Tattoo-female.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C15PpZh9rNI/TjCol9UXj_I/AAAAAAAALmw/W-_uQZCT-9k/s640/narcissus.jpg

None is exactly what I'm after but definitely getting there. They include a lot more colour / brightness than I think I want, the style is maybe laid on a tiny tad too thick in some places and I'm not keen on the layering of the crocus with the rose either.

these http://www.divatattoo.com/tattoo/botanical/art/01_sunflowers.gif are kind of getting there too

I'm pretty sure I'd want a tessellation of individual tattoos like traditional botany prints / multiple flash, thus: http://www.lib.udel.edu/ud/spec/exhibits/hort/hortimages/eden.jpg

the gorse up the sides here too as well as the general feel http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8521/8592345992_f72e01b1b2_m.jpg

It very, very hard to find examples that aren't roses but there is precedent out there.

I guess I'm after walking a fine line between traditional realism and traditional old school (my technical terms are almost certainly way out, sorry!). Think my artist is going to hate me?

[CultExciter]

I think you need to get off the internet and stop looking at so much. Take two to three examples of things you like and let go. You're asking someone to design something for you. So obviously they are doing to need a little say so in the process.

[HettyKet]

I think you need to get off the internet and stop looking at so much. Take two to three examples of things you like and let go. You're asking someone to design something for you. So obviously they are doing to need a little say so in the process.

:D

Yes. That.

I want him (or whoever end up doing it) to have a tonne of input but, the thing is, if I can't concisely show / explain what I'm after he stands no chance, surely?

What I had envisioned seems to be a blend of 3 styles (17th c. botany / old fashioned 'stiff' realism / old school) which should be eminently doable, but for which I'm not finding examples beyond the original botanical drawings and the odd tattoo that has some elements of what I'm after. Is that really enough?

[CultExciter]

Yes, it's enough.

[HettyKet]

Take two to three examples of things you like and let go. You're asking someone to design something for you.

See, before I came on here, i had in mind to take a selection of old prints and maybe a photo or two of the old painted ladies and just say "I fancy a mix between these prints, those ladies and new, old school, wadda you think?" However, the reaction to doing basically that at the start of this thread seemed to result in a deal of confusion.

- - - Updated - - -

x post. Fab. Thank you!

[Pleadco]

A deep breath, Valium, and trust will get you a long way :). The right tattooer will take that amorphous mass of ideas and turn it into something glorious.

[HettyKet]

Thank you. I'm sure you're right!

[HettyKet]

YI highly recommend checking out Salon Serpent. tattoo Kim Anh Nguyen has a style that you might really like, and the other tattooers at that shop are great, too. Good luck!

In my hysteria I forgot to thank you for the link to Kim Anh Nguyen - sorry about that! I like her work a lot and there's a bearded lady somewhere on her facebook page that I adore. Short and easy journey to Amsterdam from here too. mmm.

[lupoavanti]

So nice to see someone really taking the incentive to research tattoos on a proper forum. I only wish that all my clients would do that. I am new here so I will just throw in a few suggestions to consider before you start: 1. Don't get stuck on themes 2. Consider your palette and the longevity of the colors you like 3. I would start an area and then finish the area instead of the bird shot approach.

Does this help?

[HettyKet]

Does this help?

Yes, certainly!

Since I've been on here I'm afraid I've got the bug somewhat but there will definitely be no birdshot tattooing going on (unless that's what they advise for some reason).

I'm not sure on the colour front - I'm thinking I want black and grey but I'm open to some (or full) colour if that's what my artist thinks will bring out the best in what he designs. Can you tell me anything about colour longevity? Looking at old photos, red, blue and green seem to be lasting well but I've really not looked into it properly at all.

[Mark Bee]

You certainly look like you're on the right track. I'll second the advice you are getting suggesting not to overthink things, as counterintuitive as that may seem. With a good artist, you can leave much of the design work to them. Also, a lot of the traditional photos you have provided would be best (in my opinion) with at least some color. Although I have to admit I have a strong bias towards colorful traditional work. Bold lines and strong colors seem to work pretty well and hold up over time. There is an excellent thread on these pages about what makes a good tattoo and the consensus seems to be that strong black lining and good shading forms the foundation of good tattoos. Color just adds a little extra spark, in my opinion. Not to mention, browsing through the various galleries here will demonstrate the truth behind that sentiment. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide. Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.

[HettyKet]

I'm no expert but his work looks fairly solid, I like the bear and the tiger.

He's just put up photos of those two finished off - in case you should be interested. http://instagram.com/willem666#

[deadsp0t]

He's just put up photos of those two finished off - in case you should be interested. http://instagram.com/willem666#

The tiger with the hour glass is cool stuff!

I just followed him on IG, love seeing quality work!

[Eduard]

No worries, the guys from Bunker Tattoo are alright... you're in safe hands...:cool:

[HettyKet]

No worries, the guys from Bunker Tattoo are alright... you're in safe hands...:cool:

Thank you :)

Wij mogen hier het niet echt over geld hebben, dus ff in het Nederlands, hoe zit het met tips hier - deze mensen zijn vooral van de VS (denk ik) en doen dat altijd, waar dan ook. Het lijkt me ook respectvol en gepast om een goede tip te geven maar als het niet gebruikelijk is in NL sta ik liever niet voor idioot bij het afrekenen...

[Eduard]

Hahaha, je weet ondertussen toch wel hoe Nederlanders zijn? Tips geven is inderdaad heel erg on-Nederlands, maar als wij Nederlanders iets gratis kunnen krijgen zullen we het nooit afslaan.... Je kunt ook als blijkt van waardering (alleen niet gelijk bij de eerste sessie) een 'aardigheidje' voor je tatoeerder meebrengen, maar nogmaals, het is niet gebruikelijk (vriendschap is niet te koop ;) )

[HettyKet]

Geweldig - had al zo'n vermoede. Is ook erg on-engels om er mee aan te komen. Goed dat je het zegt over de eerste keer ook, had bedacht dat ik cakejes mee zo nemen (ik bak graag) maar inderdaad waarschijnlijk beter van niet! Naar 10 jaar ben ik nog steeds niet volledig ingeburgerd, schijnt. Bedankt!

By the way, do you happen to know anything about the history of european tattooing than you could add to this? : http://www.lastsparrowtattoo.com/forum/general-tattoo-discussion/4527-circus-tattooing-charlie-wagner-et-al-germany-connection-anyone.html#post74361?

[HettyKet]

I'm kind of hoping that he'll start drawing and it wont be what's in my head, just related to it, and I'll fall in love with with the designs on the spot. I am a hopeless romantic.

(I'm also quite assertive when I need to be and certainly wont be going with the tattooing if it doesn't feel like magic)

I'm one lucky fucker indeed. This ^ is exactly what happened!

You lot are a bunch of heros - I'd never have dared give the required trust without the advice I've had one here. Particularly what @hogg said about the beautiful Stuart Cripwell legs which is, of course, true of the circus girls too.

[HettyKet]

I (now) know this sort of thread can make people here feel like pulling their teeth out but the patience and effort of LSTers is a great thing and I remain eternally grateful. Honestly. So, despite the shame of bumping this I'm adding photos of the finished project 'cause it's maybe nice to have it all together. I already put them on Latest Tattoo Lowdown though, wasn't thinking!

I did take an enormous mass of over thought out context and reference photos in but that went down fine and was actually appreciated. Balanced it out by giving him free choice on what to use from it all and full control on colour and placement. I like to think it worked out nice.

Back again in November for a start on the next bit of me.

[Raven]

I have to say, that is a beautiful piece. I'm getting a bunch of moth's over my shoulder in November. If it comes out half as good as yours, I'll be happy.

[SeeSea]

That is gorgeous! Really really like. It was interesting to read your story. I did some over-thinking too until my tattoo artist kinda smacked me down. I'm much calmer now :-)

Just lovely! Thank you for circling back around to "complete" your thread with the final result.

[Hands On]

That is gorgeous! Really really like. It was interesting to read your story. I did some over-thinking too until my tattoo artist kinda smacked me down. I'm much calmer now :-)

Just lovely! Thank you for circling back around to "complete" your thread with the final result.

agreed. i never came across this thread before and started from the beginning without even looking at the dates. in all honesty, i was thinking, "here we go again with another over-thinker" yadda yadda. then i got rewarded with the completed work with admission of shame, which is a strong move!! i would have to say, if most of us were honest with ourselves, we might realize that we were all the over-thinking, overexcited, fresh to tattoos/tattooing, "virgin canvasses" at one point. we get savvy to how things are over time and experience and get to look back at how much we've grown! we can look back at our first tattoos and remember the story of what an idiot i was or how young and i dumb i was!

@HettyKet i'm not saying that you're any of these, but this thread is a good reminder anyways. one thing i love about conventions is the gathered energy and excitement... especially the feeling of those who are seeing and receiving great tattoos for the first time.

[polliwog]

And then there's learning to let go of the worry that you look stupid or that you don't know enough. I've been reassured a few times that tattooers are used to handling nervous newbies -- and everyone I've met so far has been nicer than I'd ever imagined as a pinky. This seems to be a profession that attracts people with an aversion to pretension, so it's better to have some humility than to try to impress.

@HettyKet, it all worked out in the best way possible. I'm jealous of that arm.

[HettyKet]

Shame on the internet, embarrassment in the shop and tattoos that feel better than I deserve. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Next session is the first time I know what I'm getting before I get there - have been lucky enough to snaffle a drawing he'd made and wanted to tattoo - and I'm finding that really rather odd. Distracts from the waiting though.