Aging realism and what lasts

[peterpoose]

With your tattoo, there is enough black in it, so you should probably be pretty well off with time.

That sounds promising then, time will tell :)

[Dan S]

I've got a pretty large chunk of arm covered in 3-needle work, done in 1984, and it still looks as good today as it did then.

[Brandon Dailey]

During my 10 years in the business I have found that any tattoo which is properly saturated with proven pigments in a manner that anticipates the aging of the piece will last. There needs to be black to maintain contrast. (in my humble opinion too much black is almost enough) A heavily saturated section of color will last as long as the pigment permits, though it will only look it's best when dark black is placed near it...

One problem is application. Many of these new realism tricks are achieved through a process that will not last, though with the right design, pigment choice, and application color should last... it just won't pop without black. I see examples of realism, both on the web and in person, which were obviously tattooed by someone who is uneducated in the tattoo process. These cannot be admitted into the longevity debate, as a "traditional tattoo" by the same artist would surely disappoint equally. I would love to delve into my perception of the difference in process further, but will stop here so that technique doesn't become public discussion.

Another problem is pigment. Many flesh tones, browns, and pastel colors just end up losing out to time and sun. This being said, I have yellow on me that is almost 12 years old that is brighter than fresh tattoos I see from competitors. This yellow in my arm looks virtually the same as the yellow a friend of mine has in his tattoos, which were applied by the same artist 10 years prior to my own! I also have purple which was mixed down with white to fade into my skin tone in the same tattoo and after 12 years the main purple is solid and bright, and the transition to skin is flawless. This in my opinion is due to quality lightfast pigments which were applied in a manner which saturated the skin with the aging process thought of well in advance.

This is just the way I've interpreted my observations over the years.

[thesandmanisme]

I can say this, from personal experience. Keep your tattoos out of direct sunlight. Back when I was a kid, we could play outside all day in the sunshine and not get 1/3 of the UV damage that you can get today. I suppose the Ozone is really getting trashed like they say it is. Just walking from inside the house out in the sun feels different than it used to. Its almost an instant little sting thing goin on. Anyone else notice that?

[Just Alex]

I can say this, from personal experience. Keep your tattoos out of direct sunlight. Back when I was a kid, we could play outside all day in the sunshine and not get 1/3 of the UV damage that you can get today. I suppose the Ozone is really getting trashed like they say it is. Just walking from inside the house out in the sun feels different than it used to. Its almost an instant little sting thing goin on. Anyone else notice that?

Not where I live! We just consider ourselves lucky if it isn't raining :) I don't doubt your point though.

[Great Lakes Tattooing]

Bukowski?

[real meta]

Anyone else think the old one looks like Rip Torn?

[Erica]

I had my lower arm done by Dan Henk about 5-6 years ago? although lacking outlines, the color is still incredibly bright and I get compliments constantly on that alone. Of course, I did go to someone who knew what he was doing and on top of that, they are two skeletons wearing draped robes and the tattoo only has black and grey, blue and green. I am sure the minimal use of color helps a lot.

That being said, it is the one and only tattoo I have lacking outlines and will remain so.

[acmetim]

what i would love to see is a magazine, or section on this wonderful forum -where pictures of "realistic" tattoos that were published in magazines(or online) when new- were tracked down and re-photoed to show how they hold up compared to how they were presented to the public. i think many magazines do us artists a disservice when they photoshop up tattoo images. it makes for pretty pictures, and unrealistic expectations from clients. if i had a dollar for every time i told a potential client that a white tattoo was not going to look good, and had them pull up some photo of a freshly done white tattoo on their phone to prove me wrong......so lets see some pictures of those 20 shades of rottting flesh tatttoos when new and 10 years later

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@ peterpoose sorry but that tattoo is barely readable now, in 10 years you will have a black arm. sorry dude

[peterpoose]

what i would love to see is a magazine, or section on this wonderful forum -where pictures of "realistic" tattoos that were published in magazines(or online) when new- were tracked down and re-photoed to show how they hold up compared to how they were presented to the public. i think many magazines do us artists a disservice when they photoshop up tattoo images. it makes for pretty pictures, and unrealistic expectations from clients. if i had a dollar for every time i told a potential client that a white tattoo was not going to look good, and had them pull up some photo of a freshly done white tattoo on their phone to prove me wrong......so lets see some pictures of those 20 shades of rottting flesh tatttoos when new and 10 years later

- - - Updated - - -

@ peterpoose sorry but that tattoo is barely readable now, in 10 years you will have a black arm. sorry dude

Not sure what you are trying to read, nothing to be read there lol

On a more serious note :)

No need to be sorry mate, I will probably not even be alive in 10 years lol. I got it for now and however long it lasts, it lasts. I know alot of people specially on this forum are all for the old school type tattoos that do stand the test of time and everywhere that old school tattoo people say the same thing. Its like the Old school tattoo people vs the new type of tattoo art artists are throwing out nowdays.

No one is sure really whether they will last, you can only presume, inks are better, machines etc. I am not talking about mine but all of this new type of tattoo work seems to get the same treatment specially from people like yourselves that are into old type tattoos, which I am not. I never wanted an old school tattoo and was only until I saw this new art that I fell in love with tattoos. I can appreciate the artwork but I just don't like old type tattoos even though I grew up around them :)

I did ask Dmitriy while I was in Odessa about my concerns and the fine details, so he sent for a friend he did 5 years previously with an intricate piece of this new type of art that people are saying wont last (no outlines etc) to show me how it aged. I have to say it was like it was done yesterday and exactly the same as what I saw on the internet years before. So I live in hope lol

Some folks on here said because I have alot of black it should hold up better, either way I don't care, at the time I got it, its a beautiful piece of art whether it lasts or not:)

[Just Alex]

I did ask Dmitriy while I was in Odessa about my concerns and the fine details, so he sent for a friend he did 5 years previously with an intricate piece of this new type of art that people are saying wont last (no outlines etc) to show me how it aged. I have to say it was like it was done yesterday and exactly the same as what I saw on the internet years before. So I live in hope lol

Some folks on here said because I have alot of black it should hold up better, either way I don't care, at the time I got it, its a beautiful piece of art whether it lasts or not:)

Hi Peter...

I am the owner of the gecko tattoo on BTP and I feel pretty much in the same boat as yourself - only my piece has a lot less black! That said, Oddboy has also posted older examples of his work (although only going back 4-5 years) which still look great. We shall see if I have a blue green smudge later on in life or not - but I am not losing sleep over it!

[peterpoose]

Hi Peter...

I am the owner of the gecko tattoo on BTP and I feel pretty much in the same boat as yourself - only my piece has a lot less black! That said, Oddboy has also posted older examples of his work (although only going back 4-5 years) which still look great. We shall see if I have a blue green smudge later on in life or not - but I am not losing sleep over it!

hey mate, that's a lovely piece you have.

Its just that sometimes it feels like the old school type tattoo people (sounds wrong labelling people lol but you know what I mean) seem to really want these new types of tattoos to fail. All i ever get and its always from the same crowd is "that wont last, blah blah blah"

From what I have seen, they look very likely to last, obviously dependent on artist and techniques which I know nothing about :)

[Scott R]

@peterpoose I like your view on it, you will be happy either way and thats whats up

[Gregor]

I like realism, doesnt fuss me whether it'll last or not, i suspect thats down to the technique and talent of the artist, and the pigments used. Saying that If I got the chance to get some work done by Mr Devries or Mr Porter, I think I would go for something different than the usual hyper real colour portrait. For example check out the stuff that Bez from triplesix does - amazing.

What I dont like however, is skin rips , has to be the shittiest of all tattooes, esp when combined with realism.

[Just Alex]

What I dont like however, is skin rips , has to be the shittiest of all tattooes, esp when combined with realism.

A gimmick that should have been left behind along with big spiky black Dusk Till Dawn tribal! But meh, each to their own. Even if I wanted that kind of work my missus is suitably squeamish that a skin rip would just make her uncomfortable forever so not gonna happen haha.

I agree with you re:Bez too, he has posted pics of a mental front piece lately which has to be one of the most impressive tattoos I have ever seen, regardless of the style... Will try to find it when I am not posting from my phone!

[Gregor]

that mad bio fire honeycomb thing ? Amazing stuff . The Vulture is amazing too

[peterpoose]

Yeah he is doing some amazing works.

This is the piece, amazing!

upload pic

[Just Alex]

Yeah thats the one I was referring to @peterpoose, but I also love that vulture @Gregor!

[acmetim]

i like it when people think there is a special "technique" to making this type of tattooing last. tattooing is poking holes in people with needles dipped in ink. thats the technique. it has always been that and always will be. each new generation learns the hard way.

[peterpoose]

i like it when people think there is a special "technique" to making this type of tattooing last. tattooing is poking holes in people with needles dipped in ink. thats the technique. it has always been that and always will be. each new generation learns the hard way.

The mind is a powerful thing :)

[xmowglix]

I'll be the first to admit that I fell victim to the internet/myspace era of tattoo portfolios. I saw a few "realistic color portraits" and thought they were the best tattoos I had ever laid eyes on. I went out and got myself a real expensive one from an artist held in high regard within that style of tattooing. To this day it was my least memorable tattoo experience. I didn't feel like I was in a tattoo shop, I had to deal with huge egos, there was little to no respect or care for other tattooers in the industry, and in retrospect I was paying a lot of money for a "temporary" tattoo. The internet falsely represented good and humble tattooing to me and I ate it up.

It's much like what I believe the internet has done to music on both the artist and fan side of things. People no longer physically go out and buy records to find music. They download music (usually not even full albums), claim they found an awesome band that they believe to be talented via a computer screen, then when they go to see that band live it's a bunch of pre programmed auto tuned bullshit that lacks any skill in playing an instrument or understanding proper song writing. Hopefully they leave feeling disappointed, stop buying into it, and mark it as a lesson learned. Much like how I felt after I got my "realistic portrait".

Bands no longer have to tour non stop in a van for months on end under shit conditions before they become successful. They are now fueled by internet hype and are playing sold out shows before ever even touring.

I feel that this draws a perfect parallel to this new generation of tattoo artists that have no idea how to lay down a proper outline, shade with black, paint flash, etc yet they have kids flocking to them and are booked out months before ever paying their dues at a shop.

The consumer is the only one that can stop all the garbage that happens because of the internet. If we put in a little effort into going to a tattoo shop and talking to someone about why a color portrait with no black won't make for a good tattoo as opposed to reading a blog about it we will make for a much more educated consumer and hopefully end up with quality tattoos. Fuck, I really wish I had done that and not depended on what I saw on a screen. It wasn't until I physically walked into shops like Spotlight, Classic, or Gold Rush that I truly understood what I wanted out of a tattoo.

And that's the end of my rant...

[peterpoose]

I'll be the first to admit that I fell victim to the internet/myspace era of tattoo portfolios. I saw a few "realistic color portraits" and thought they were the best tattoos I had ever laid eyes on. I went out and got myself a real expensive one from an artist held in high regard within that style of tattooing. To this day it was my least memorable tattoo experience. I didn't feel like I was in a tattoo shop, I had to deal with huge egos, there was little to no respect or care for other tattooers in the industry, and in retrospect I was paying a lot of money for a "temporary" tattoo. The internet falsely represented good and humble tattooing to me and I ate it up.

It's much like what I believe the internet has done to music on both the artist and fan side of things. People no longer physically go out and buy records to find music. They download music (usually not even full albums), claim they found an awesome band that they believe to be talented via a computer screen, then when they go to see that band live it's a bunch of pre programmed auto tuned bullshit that lacks any skill in playing an instrument or understanding proper song writing. Hopefully they leave feeling disappointed, stop buying into it, and mark it as a lesson learned. Much like how I felt after I got my "realistic portrait".

Bands no longer have to tour non stop in a van for months on end under shit conditions before they become successful. They are now fueled by internet hype and are playing sold out shows before ever even touring.

I feel that this draws a perfect parallel to this new generation of tattoo artists that have no idea how to lay down a proper outline, shade with black, paint flash, etc yet they have kids flocking to them and are booked out months before ever paying their dues at a shop.

The consumer is the only one that can stop all the garbage that happens because of the internet. If we put in a little effort into going to a tattoo shop and talking to someone about why a color portrait with no black won't make for a good tattoo as opposed to reading a blog about it we will make for a much more educated consumer and hopefully end up with quality tattoos. Fuck, I really wish I had done that and not depended on what I saw on a screen. It wasn't until I physically walked into shops like Spotlight, Classic, or Gold Rush that I truly understood what I wanted out of a tattoo.

And that's the end of my rant...

Totally agree with you mate about the way things are heading these days. It will only get worse in many avenues including the ones you mentioned. As far as tattooing goes, I am a complete novice but I know what I like the look of. I like the stuff that is about now days compared to the traditional type tattoos (although I have seen many awesome traditional tattoos that I like but would never get). I also prefer B/G with just hints of colour.

From what I gather, is everyone absolutely sure that (lets use my pieces as examples) all my tattoos will look like blobs? Do we all have to get traditional tattoos to stand a chance of having some nice looking tattoos in lets say ten years time? I don't like the sound of that really. I never had the bad experiences you had with artists but I am sure it happens. I will say I prefer the whole feel of the old traditional type tattoos, lifestyle, the people etc instead of the sometimes fake Hollywood shit. For instance Moni Morino, she is plastering herself all over the web in poses and fucking stupid shit she doesn't need to do. She's a good looking chick and a talented artist in my opinion but doing so many cheesy photo shoots. Money!

I feel money seems to destroy good times and feelings. I have money and i've seen mates I grew up with from the ages of of like 4 turn into complete pricks because they got money and some power job wise. Like the rave scene which I loved when it was underground. Soon as it was seen the amounts money that was involved it started to go shit, driven into a controlled environment, to make even more money.

What is it about your tattoos that you hate? Was it the experiences or the actual tattoo looks like crap now?

As I mentioned in an earlier post. I witnessed with my own eyes a piece like what you are all describing, colour, no outline etc that was done 5 years before and looked immaculate. How would you guys explain this? I am genuinly interested in your answers as you all have so much more experience. I just went and got what I liked and never once thought about the longevity until I got to Dmitriy.

One last question. For the people that do not like or want to get a traditional tattoo, what other options are there left for people like us?

lol Sorry for the long post :)

[xmowglix]

Totally agree with you mate about the way things are heading these days. It will only get worse in many avenues including the ones you mentioned. As far as tattooing goes, I am a complete novice but I know what I like the look of. I like the stuff that is about now days compared to the traditional type tattoos (although I have seen many awesome traditional tattoos that I like but would never get). I also prefer B/G with just hints of colour.

From what I gather, is everyone absolutely sure that (lets use my pieces as examples) all my tattoos will look like blobs? Do we all have to get traditional tattoos to stand a chance of having some nice looking tattoos in lets say ten years time? I don't like the sound of that really. I never had the bad experiences you had with artists but I am sure it happens. I will say I prefer the whole feel of the old traditional type tattoos, lifestyle, the people etc instead of the sometimes fake Hollywood shit. For instance Moni Morino, she is plastering herself all over the web in poses and fucking stupid shit she doesn't need to do. She's a good looking chick and a talented artist in my opinion but doing so many cheesy photo shoots. Money!

I feel money seems to destroy good times and feelings. I have money and i've seen mates I grew up with from the ages of of like 4 turn into complete pricks because they got money and some power job wise. Like the rave scene which I loved when it was underground. Soon as it was seen the amounts money that was involved it started to go shit, driven into a controlled environment, to make even more money.

What is it about your tattoos that you hate? Was it the experiences or the actual tattoo looks like crap now?

As I mentioned in an earlier post. I witnessed with my own eyes a piece like what you are all describing, colour, no outline etc that was done 5 years before and looked immaculate. How would you guys explain this? I am genuinly interested in your answers as you all have so much more experience. I just went and got what I liked and never once thought about the longevity until I got to Dmitriy.

One last question. For the people that do not like or want to get a traditional tattoo, what other options are there left for people like us?

lol Sorry for the long post :)

It's not that I hate the tattoo or the specific experience as much as it's that I wish I went into it with a better understanding of what I was buying into/supporting. It's like if you were going to buy a car and one salesman is an honest hard working guy that has been selling cars for years. He is trying to sell you a car that is reliable and tells you the car is going to last forever. The other salesman is flashier has a car that looks better aesthetically but he doesn't say anything about it. You just know that it looks newer and shinier than the other car. You buy the flashy car and it breaks down after a couple years. It's not necessarily the salesman's fault for not saying anything to you about the car not being reliable. You just should have done more research and better understood what you were getting. But it's a bummer you gave your money to the wrong guy and supported the wrong business.

[peterpoose]

It's not that I hate the tattoo or the specific experience as much as it's that I wish I went into it with a better understanding of what I was buying into/supporting. It's like if you were going to buy a car and one salesman is an honest hard working guy that has been selling cars for years. He is trying to sell you a car that is reliable and tells you the car is going to last forever. The other salesman is flashier has a car that looks better aesthetically but he doesn't say anything about it. You just know that it looks newer and shinier than the other car. You buy the flashy car and it breaks down after a couple years. It's not necessarily the salesman's fault for not saying anything to you about the car not being reliable. You just should have done more research and better understood what you were getting. But it's a bummer you gave your money to the wrong guy and supported the wrong business.

I see your point :)

What if both cars were going to drive forever?

No one can predict the future and from what I personally have seen with my own eyes from the artists I chose is that this will last.

Other artists or designs I cannot comment on.

It seems a fad that when different groups of people are on different sides of the fence, they will be bias yet no one can show me proof that these types of tattoos will not last.

Some won't, some will in my opinion but to write it off as a fail at the start and grouping every other tattoo that's not traditional in the fail catergory is a little bit negative and bias towards your side of the fence.

If I was to say, put your money where your mouth is(not directed at the quoted mate) and say, let's have a wager of a £10,000 bet that my arm doesn't look like a blob in ten years time, would you take it? I would and seriously would take that if anyone is that sure that only traditional tattoos last. I am not sure but I believe in what I saw with my own eyes. I may lose the bet but you may lose also :)

Would any of you traditional guys/gals get a modern type tattoo if you knew it would last forever or do you just not like the art itself? :)

Please if anybody has any concrete proof via pictures, would you mind posting them?

Cheers

[HaydenRose]

Would any of you traditional guys/gals get a modern type tattoo if you knew it would last forever or do you just not like the art itself? :)

My simple answer is no, I would not get a "realistic" tattoo. Not because I don't appreciate the art and what it's doing for the tattoo industry. It's more because realistic tattoos have stopped looking like tattoos, and to me, look like temporary body paint. The whole culture of tattoos and the evolution of designs is what I love about getting tattooed--being a part of that. These realistic tattoos are such a severe deviation from what tattoos have been and have become. This doesn't mean it's not something to be admired or respected. However, realistic looking tattoos have allowed consumers that never would have gotten tattooed to find something that they like. In some ways, it feels like its only creating this other tattoo culture where everyone in the world has at least one tattoo, but doesn't know what it means to be tattooed. They don't take on the burden of setting themselves apart and defining their own subculture. All because they don't want a tattoo that looks like a tattoo. They want something that looks like a photoshopped nature photograph on their ribs. Now I'm just getting biased and cold.... But I hope someone understand what's I'm saying.

As for the tattoos lasting, I don't think any tattoo truly "lasts". I'm not expert as I don't have many and I'm not that old. I do have a almost 6 year old solid black outline which looks the same as the day I've got it done. But that's because I took care of it, SPF 50 always. If you take care of it, it will probably look better than some one who didn't.