Batman US cinema shooting

[jade1955]

BBC News - Batman US cinema shooting: 12 dead in Colorado

Shit this is just terrible.

[AK143]

BBC News - Batman US cinema shooting: 12 dead in Colorado

Shit this is just terrible.

I know right! Some people are just crazy..

[Dan S]

Whackos everywhere.

Next thing ya know it'll be bombing Iran...

[Colored Guy]

Pretty effed up.. seems he went into the movie, ducked out the back exit door (blocked it open) and came back in with the goods. So much for a security system at that place! Almost every theater has one, great shortcut to the parking lot for the sane ones among us.

CG

[Scott R]

no one had conceal and carry in that theatre?

[Dan S]

From the reports I read this morning -and they are conflicting, every news source seems to have something a little different - this goof walks in wearing a gas mask, goes out the backdoor, and comes back with an AR, a shotgun, and a handgun, tosses some type of smoke down an aisle and then starts lighting up. Had a 90 round drum on the AR, and most witnesses said they heard 20-30 shots.

So far the "authorities" are claiming 71 injured and 12 dead. Depending on what "injured" means, it's quite possible. The reorts all talk about the stampede to get out, so many of the "injuries" could well be from that. Guy could dump 20-30 round in under 20 seconds, so it isn't too surprising that he could do it without being taken off...but it does make you wonder.

He shouldn't have survived.

Wonder if he'll be "killed by fellow inmates" while in custody? Lee Harvey Oswald, anyone?

[Abellve]

"gun free zone" as I understand it.

[Dan S]

"gun free zone" as I understand it.

Victim Disarmament Zone.

[RoryQ]

no one had conceal and carry in that theatre?

That occurred to me too, but even if someone was carrying, I think they would have had their work cut out for them to return fire accurately at the right person in those kinds of conditions.

Shooting in low light is tricky at the best of times, but add in a few hundred screaming people milling around, possibly smoke etc. and lots of 5.56 coming down-range from a guy wearing a vest.. Not great.

[Dan S]

That occurred to me too, but even if someone was carrying, I think they would have had their work cut out for them to return fire accurately at the right person in those kinds of conditions.

Shooting in low light is tricky at the best of times, but add in a few hundred screaming people milling around, possibly smoke etc. and lots of 5.56 coming down-range from a guy wearing a vest.. Not great.

This shooter was probably only active, from what wits say, for about 20 seconds, tops. Unless someone was right on top of him and saw it jump, basically zero chance of effective counter-fire. And what Rory says is spot-on...when there is shit coming in at you, it tends to narrow down your perspective a tad.

It could have been worse.

For all of the hoplophobes who feel that weapons should be illegal, if this moke had gone in with a gallon of gas (explosive force roughly equivelant to five sticks of standard dynamite) and a book of matches, he could have killed and maimed far, far more people.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Dan S
spelng

[posterboy7596]

Certainly a tragedy, but also certainly not a reason to restrict anyone's rights to own/carry weapons. Crazy people do crazy shit, period.

[Dan S]

Certainly a tragedy, but also certainly not a reason to restrict anyone's rights to own/carry weapons. Crazy people do crazy shit, period.

Damn straight. I'd feel a lot safer if they let civvies everywhere all over the world carry weapons and disarmed the governments!

[Natveggie45]

Tends to agree with posterboy.... Even though we are Canadians, and supposed to be be living in a great neighborhood (professionals, retirees, and so on), hubby and i both have our licenses to carry. Now, guy across the street was broken into. 5 People last month got their tire slashed. 2 vehicles got broken into. All separate incidents. Never us... Maybe it is the bike parked outside, the dogs roaming the house, or the tattoos and driving range sticker membership, but the little fuc@&&&rs stay away. I am NOT saying violence is the answer. But i refuse to be scared by a bunch of people who walk around and think they have a right to do these things. We are both teachers, and i had ONE student in my whole career, 23 years, threaten me. He told me he knew where my family and i were living. I simply answered that he was 16, and would be prosecuted as an adult; but i also whispered to him that he would not be walking into that courtroom...

Sorry if i am long winded on this, but this touched a nerve as i was never the same teacher after that ass$&@ spoke to me like that.

[Colored Guy]

That occurred to me too, but even if someone was carrying, I think they would have had their work cut out for them to return fire accurately at the right person in those kinds of conditions.

Shooting in low light is tricky at the best of times, but add in a few hundred screaming people milling around, possibly smoke etc. and lots of 5.56 coming down-range from a guy wearing a vest.. Not great.

Years ago, I carried all the time and so did my girlfriend. Totally illegal but we lived in a tough area. You would have needed at least a few seconds to assess what was going on. Plus there are civilians in a state of panic all around. I bet there was at least one person carrying there.

CG

[slayer9019]

If anyone had tried to counter, it would have been a miracle if they actually hit him. To anyone who ever shot at a range, you can understand this. It was dark, loud, people moving/screaming, etc. Even if you were close, people usually carry smaller guns (snubs, pocket .380s, etc) which makes effective range close to null. I know I personally wouldn't have fired back. You probably had a good chance of hitting another person.

[reverend1]

If anyone had tried to counter, it would have been a miracle if they actually hit him. To anyone who ever shot at a range, you can understand this. It was dark, loud, people moving/screaming, etc. Even if you were close, people usually carry smaller guns (snubs, pocket .380s, etc) which makes effective range close to null. I know I personally wouldn't have fired back. You probably had a good chance of hitting another person.

Yes and no. Depends on the person and the training they received. I would have returned fire. I carry a Kimber .45 everyday. This guy didn't want to be shot and was obviously a coward. I doubt he would have wanted to stand and fight with rounds heading back in his direction. He didn't have any tactical training. I figure it's better than sitting there and hoping, I rather take my chances and fight back. All that being said, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback. Its a sad situation and my prayers go out to all who were harmed by that scumbag.

[slayer9019]

Yes and no. Depends on the person and the training they received. I would have returned fire. I carry a Kimber .45 everyday. This guy didn't want to be shot and was obviously a coward. I doubt he would have wanted to stand and fight with rounds heading back in his direction. He didn't have any tactical training. I figure it's better than sitting there and hoping, I rather take my chances and fight back. All that being said, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback. Its a sad situation and my prayers go out to all who were harmed by that scumbag.

Not to go back and forth (as I've seen too much on all of the gun forums out there) but as I've seen most people are not tactically trained. Even if they are trained, to draw a weapon, locate the assailant, index the target and accurately place shots while being shot at in a dark movie theatre with a lot of environmental problems like other people, etc. This also with the fact of not hitting another person I stand by my position.

[Colored Guy]

Not to go back and forth (as I've seen too much on all of the gun forums out there) but as I've seen most people are not tactically trained. Even if they are trained, to draw a weapon, locate the assailant, index the target and accurately place shots while being shot at in a dark movie theatre with a lot of environmental problems like other people, etc. This also with the fact of not hitting another person I stand by my position.

The whole thing was over fast, hardly enough time to assess what was going on unless you were trained for it.

CG

[reverend1]

unless you were trained for it.

CG

There is the difference. I don't think you even would have had to hit him. Think suppressing fire, you could have probably shoot into the ceiling and caused him to flee. I think just returning fire would have been enough. He was counting on everyone being helpless. Like I said before it's easy to say what you would or wouldn't do when you were not there. I would like to think I would could have made a difference, but I really don't know. I know I would rather have had the option than be sitting there disarmed and helpless. Just in case you are wondering I have received advanced combat pistol training from Gun-Site and The Tactical Defense Institute. Well worth it if you ever have the opportunity.

[Colored Guy]

There is the difference. I don't think you even would have had to hit him. Think suppressing fire, you could have probably shoot into the ceiling and caused him to flee. I think just returning fire would have been enough. He was counting on everyone being helpless. Like I said before it's easy to say what you would or wouldn't do when you were not there. I would like to think I would could have made a difference, but I really don't know. I know I would rather have had the option than be sitting there disarmed and helpless. Just in case you are wondering I have received advanced combat pistol training from Gun-Site and The Tactical Defense Institute. Well worth it if you ever have the opportunity.

That would have probably have worked since the guy was a pussy.... I guess nobody was packing there at all.

CG