What's the scoop on shops Down-Under?

[Dan S]

This might be too sensitive a subject, if so, I would ax an Admin to delete it.

Watdafuk is going on in the tattoo world in Oz? Every day I read about shops getting shot-up by this club or that club, that type of thing.

Do the M/C's have a lock on tattooing there? Are "independant shops hassled? What about artists, can an artist just work, or does he have to worry about whose turf he's on, etc.?

As I said, if that's not stuff people want aired, it won't hurt my feelings any if this thread just goes away, I'm just curious if what I read and hear is being exaggerated.

[Jomester]

i,ve heard it referred to as guerilla tattooing by a artist/machine builder down there, sounds rugged!

[Dan S]

Watup @Duffa...what's the real deal?

[hogg]

Do the M/C's have a lock on tattooing there?

I've heard something to that effect, but I'll leave it to the actual Aussies to weigh in here.

[Jomester]

oh it was "combat tattooing" not guerilla

[Amok]

A lot of shops are bikie owned. And apparently if you don't have a connection to a bikie gang your shop might get firebombed. And if course rival gangs shoot up each others shops. It's pretty bad actually. This is just what I've heard, I'm not in the industry.

[Duffa]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's see what I can light I can shed here without going into specifics about anyone ;)

First - I should say it's not as bad as the media makes it out to be (funny that?) However, there has been an increase recently in shit popping off between certain M/C's and the use of handguns which makes it a lot more high profile (We have pretty stringent guns laws, but that's a whole other story that I can explain later)

The M/C's don't have a lock down on shops. You can be independent and remain relatively hassle free (everyone has some hassles in life ;) ), and it's usually the better shops that choose to go the indie route. They are tattooers who want to tattoo. Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure members or associates would frequent these establishments also, but they aren't club shops.

What it is, is that there is currently a bit of turmoil going on within and between certain clubs (patching over, women the usual issues etc) and associated businesses are being targeted (and the po po, I'll see what stuff I can find and upload). Funny thing is though, the footage of the Gyms' and what not that have been shot/blown up are hardly shown as I'm thinking it doesn't help with ratings? I'll find a link for you guys later to check out a program that aired recently on whats been going down. NSW government have or are passing laws which makes it illegal for members or associates of a M/C to own a tattoo shop (amongst other things)

This is really quick and brief and I will go into a lot more detail later when I can, with links :)

In summary - not as bad as what you hear, we're still cool.

[Duffa]

@Amok - ok, yes Sydney is slightly different and I know what your referring to in regards to fire bombing (or more the specific incident and in that case your correct) but it isn't as bad as the media portray - it rarely ever is

[Amok]

@Duffa - yep of course the media sensationalise it, and as I said I don't know much. Would love to hear more from you and check out that story you mentioned.

[Maximalion]

if it's as bad as Montreal back in the late 90s...well, that was bad

[Dan S]

This is where I get most of my news on it from. A lot of the Brothers who post on here are Aussies, so the comments are usually pretty str8. The media is having a field day for sure, and now that there has been at least one large-scale patchover, it should get more interesting.

News - White Trash Networks

[PhilB]

This is where I get most of my news on it from. A lot of the Brothers who post on here are Aussies, so the comments are usually pretty str8. The media is having a field day for sure, and now that there has been at least one large-scale patchover, it should get more interesting.

News - White Trash Networks

Possibly the oldest one is Bikernews: Biker News Network, Out Run By No One,1%er,Outlaw

Also, check out: Outlaw Bikers (this one is more of a news aggregator, but does seem to get lots of news from Aussies and Kiwis.

This one is definitely more US-centric, but still has good stuff in there: The Aging Rebel*|*The man who dies with the most stories wins.

I was in Montreal in the heart of the biker war. What was I doing at the time? I was a Harley-Davidson mechanic (did that professionally for almost a decade, and now only do it for fun and for free for my friends only. I write software professionally now.) Those were....interesting times.

[Duffa]

@Maximalion - this is nothing compared to the HA's v RM in the 90's, now that was a war!

@Amok - Not sure how much I can really say on it... it is still recent history and not being from the city of sin, I have no idea what is happening/what happened in relation to it so it may have to wait for another time. Sorry homie ;)

@Dan S - the Highway 61 stuff is actually pretty damn interesting, but it may have to be in a PM. That shit is local to me on a number of levels lol.

As I mentioned earlier it isn't that bad, or no worse than usual? In saying that, other members of society might have a different view/argument but it's only because they are now more aware of it because of the coverage. And I guess where I grew up and who I grew up with has given me a slightly different view point.

It has a lot to do with the gun crime associated with it. After the Port Arthur Massacre, all auto & semi automatic weapons where banned, handguns no longer can be owned by private citizens (citation needed) and other laws surrounding firearms where tightened. Most of the incidents have involved handguns and semi autos so that's big news. Also these younger guys have none of the 'old codes' so innocents have been getting caught in the crossfire and people are rightly pissed about it.

Back in the day it was pretty bad. No, you couldn't just open a shop and you had to have some sort of affiliation to be protected/left alone. Pretty much like most places I guess, Then (and I don't know how or why) Things changed and shops started to pop up that weren't biker controlled and everyone was happy. You still had your spots outside of capital cities (and inside to be fair) that where club controlled - place I grew up for example was where Old Rebels came to retire (ie. set up meth labs lol) and the only shops around where associated. Only now has that started to change. (it takes awhile to catch up out that way)

In recent years however, especially in Sydney, new groups have popped up, organisations looking to get other income streams/ways to launder money have turned to the old ways and shit has been getting a little hectic. There has been a few incidents locally (Brisbane) but in my view nothing really out of the ordinary and nothing really, really bad. Gold Coast has had some shit go down though lol. Mind you, I don't really like the place so eh. And Adelaide has had shit brewing for a few years (you don't touch another brothers old lady is all I'll say) And then the normal territorial and supply disputes.

I'm going to ask some friends who are a lot more knowledgeable on the subject, and if it works out I might try and set up an interview and report back. Please note, I'm no expert, I have some knowledge and I have really only scratched the surface on some of the issues. Lets see how it all pans out over the next few months/years ;)

[Duffa]

I was in Montreal in the heart of the biker war.

Stories? Yes please ;) (Fully understand if you can't or prefer/choose not to share)

[ThaliaCamille]

I've only heard of two "attacks" recently in/near Brisneyland - one shop somewhere on the Southside got smashed up by dudes with bats and a few staff got bruises, and the other near Paddo had one or two bullets fired into it late at night when no one was there. It's not really a huge deal (I mean, for the people involved it is, but in general not really).

There has been some other associated violence recently - I think a clubhouse in a suburb near me was shot up recently (again, in the wee hours of the morning when no one was around), and some dude got shot in a Gold Coast shopping centre, which is scary but still an isolated incident. Things are apparently the worst in Sydney right now, but I don't know much about that. I can say that here in QLD, your average person isn't phased by it all (I recall an interview with patrons of a cafe next to the clubhouse that got shot, the interviewer was trying to get concern out of them and the only response was basically "they only attack each other, we'll be right").

As far as I know (being someone not involved), it's common knowledge which shops are associated with these groups and which aren't. I tend to make it a habit to avoid the ones that are.

[Dan S]

Possibly the oldest one is Bikernews: Biker News Network, Out Run By No One,1%er,Outlaw

Also, check out: Outlaw Bikers (this one is more of a news aggregator, but does seem to get lots of news from Aussies and Kiwis.

This one is definitely more US-centric, but still has good stuff in there: The Aging Rebel*|*The man who dies with the most stories wins.

I was in Montreal in the heart of the biker war. What was I doing at the time? I was a Harley-Davidson mechanic (did that professionally for almost a decade, and now only do it for fun and for free for my friends only. I write software professionally now.) Those were....interesting times.

I browse all of those from time to time...like the WTN site as it's a bit less bloggy. I've wrenched on Hogs since I was 17, but all of my work is confined to older models. Got associates in certain clubs, but I don't gt to ride much, and I haven't worn a Patch in years.

And turf wars? Come to Chicago. We taught the rest of the world how it's done. With the Orwellian anti-gun laws the Aussies have allowed to disarm them, it's no wonder the shootings make big news...hell, here, it's in the charter of most Patches that it's member's own weapons. When a certain western club tried to establish a presence here, what was described by the ATF as the "largest car bomb ever detonated in the U.S." exploded outside their clubhouse in Chicago...I mean, their EX-clubhouse.

"How many pallbearers are there at an Outfit funeral?"

One...to slam the trunk lid.

[PhilB]

Stories? Yes please ;) (Fully understand if you can't or prefer/choose not to share)

Obviously, some stuff will not get shared. What made things really interesting, is that during the war (no idea what it's like now, I left Montreal over 10 years ago), no one wore colours. So, when talking to someone, you didn't know if he was a member (and if so, of what club), an associate, or just some lawyer/doctor type (remember, this is the mid-late 90s, when H-Ds started getting real popular with the "lifestyle" crowd).

Of course, you knew some of the players. There were the occasional tense moments, like when a well-known high-up of one club walked into the big dealership I was working in at the time...Then left...Then 10 minutes later, some high-ups from their rival club came in. Could have gotten ugly by 10 minutes, there!

There was also another shop I worked at where a certain club wanted the franchise associated with the name the owners were getting...but the owners who were establishing it were members of...er...let's say an Italian...family. There had to be sit-downs, etc...There were 6 owners for that shop, with names like "Big Joey" and "Little Joey", etc...

Then I moved to the Wet Coast, and saw colours everywhere. Went to a swap meet put on by the R&W (they are the only big players here, AFAIK), and saw them all in full colours. Kept looking over my shoulder. My boss was wondering what was wrong with me, then realized I was from Quebec, and looking for bullets to fly!

I also had a coworker out here who was also from Quebec, and worked at a known club shop in Montreal back in the day. He saw his business partner get blown away right in front of him. They just walked in the shop, put the gun to his head, and blew him away. After that, he worked with a shotgun under his work bench.

Personally, my relationship with all those guys is "Hi, how are you doing." Shake their hand, listen to bike problems, but their business is their business. I prefer to remain friendly without being involved.

[Hunter Morrow]

The proposed laws for "criminal association" are really vague. If somebody meets with 2 people, 2 times and receives money once they are a "criminal associate."

So two people from a motorcycle club come in and get a consultation for tattooing.

They come back the next day and get the tattoos. If you were that tattoo artist then New South Wales would consider you to be a "known criminal associate materially benefiting from association" and have the power to take your shop and license.

Sometimes as an American I forget that lots of countries don't have things like the 1st Amendment that guarantees freedom of speech and association.

[Maximalion]

I worked at a small hole in the wall shop off St. Denis, we got a call to clear out...30 minutes later some one threw a hand grenade through the window.

I left about 15 mins. before it happened and never looked back as two days before a carbomb went off infront of another shop

a buddy round the way told me later that no one was killed.

[Dan S]

Sometimes as an American I forget that lots of countries don't have things like the 1st Amendment that guarantees freedom of speech and association.

Bud, you obviously haven't met the BATF!!!

You have no freedom, only whatever illusion of freedom it suits the Perfumed Elite to allow. The first time you step over their invisible line, their alphabet-soup agencies will take you down most rickey-tick.

[ThaliaCamille]

Sometimes as an American I forget that lots of countries don't have things like the 1st Amendment that guarantees freedom of speech and association.

Lol.

Yep, the rest of the world sure is "jealous" of America >.>

[Hunter Morrow]

Okay. Have fun with your hate speech crap and your draconian gun laws. Why would you want privacy when you could have a spy camera on every street light?

:rolleyes:

[Dan S]

Okay. Have fun with your hate speech crap and your draconian gun laws. Why would you want privacy when you could have a spy camera on every street light?

:rolleyes:

We're having fun with that too, homer...you need to get out more and look around. ATF destroys anyone and anything they feel could be a threat to them or their masters, and there are more and more cameras every day.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/02/08/aclu-blasts-chicagos-network-of-cameras/

And now we have drones in the air HERE spying on us.

http://news.yahoo.com/midwest-ranchers-lawmakers-protest-epa-flyovers-080146368.html

"From time to time, the Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots"

[ThaliaCamille]

Right, should've articulated better.

People know what they're signing up for. The proposed laws and recent actions of police aren't just a case of fucking around in the everyday lives of innocent people. These groups are not distantly associated with violent crime: they're in the thick of it. The sheer arrogance required to fire a weapon into a home or business, especially with some of the near-misses in NSW involving innocent people and children, shouldn't be tolerated. If someone doesn't want the cops on their ass, here's an idea: join one of the many bike clubs that don't have connections to criminal activity.

I would rather have "draconian" gun laws than elected representatives being shot in the head while speaking in public, kids being shot on the way home from the store for wearing hoodies and "looking suspicious", and the disgustingly casual use of the term "school shooting" which has arisen from an event that shouldn't even have happened ONCE, let alone the numerous times it has in the US. The stereotypical American notion of "freedom" is a joke to the rest of the world - not that all Americans believe in it the same way (and I really don't have any beef with the majority of Americans), but the ones who are most vocal sure do sound ridiculous.

[Duffa]

Okay. Have fun with your hate speech crap and your draconian gun laws. Why would you want privacy when you could have a spy camera on every street light?

:rolleyes:

Oh shit this made me laugh. Yeah... Australia reeeeeeally sucks... like, so bad.