Rascist tattoo redo

[nmkcle]

So I have only been out of apprentice status for just under two years. I knew eventually I would come across this situation but my solution did not play out as I thought it would. So this dude comes in the shop covered in prison tattoos, for the most part they were actually done well. So we get to talking and he said his reason for coming in is to have some things redone, just gone over he says "brighten them up" I believe is the term he used. So I ask to see what he wants done. The first one is an old Cleveland radio station logo, the other is an iron cross with a giant blazing red swastika in the center. Now our shop is in the hood, so it took balls for him to even walk in there. My solution for this problem in my head was to quote a high price in hopes they would walk away. If it is not already apparent, I don't want to do this tattoo, strictly based on the content, and a promise I made to my self to never do anything overtly hateful that may have a negative impact on the client or others they may see it.

So my query is if I refuse to do it I am refusing to do my job, which he is allowed to be mad at me about because I am condemning him for his beliefs. I am not there to judge I am there to provide tattoos. O, I forgot to mention, he accepted the price on the count that the shop he was at just before quoted him even higher than I did and said he would come and see me Saturday. That's today, shit.

[PhilB]

"I don't do those kinds of tattoos, they go against my personal moral code." Done.

Now, of course, it's too late...You've already quoted him. You can always change your mind. Something like: "I thought long and hard about this, and I cannot, in good conscience, do that tattoo. I realize I've already told you I would, and I would like to apologize for the inconvenience. To make up for it, let me cut you a great deal on that other one I will do for you. Sorry again".

Disclaimer: I am not a tattoo artist. I have, however, seen my artist warn people that he simply did not do any racist tattoos.

[nmkcle]

I personally want nothing to do with that guy and I hope he doesn't come in. I don't want to put my name or the shop name on his lips.

[PhilB]

Then do what I said, but without offering the deal, since you don't plan on tattooing him, period!

[Amok]

Might be worth asking him what his swastika means. Plenty of them are not tied to Nazis at all. But by your description of the tattoo, it probably is.

[gougetheeyes]

Might be worth asking him what his swastika means. Plenty of them are not tied to Nazis at all. But by your description of the tattoo, it probably is.

"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."

[posterboy7596]

something like....."I've thought about it, and personally it is subject matter that I'm not comfortable with, and I'm not comfortable tattooing things that I'm not comfortable with".... I was trying to be a little humorous with the wording... I might have failed.

[Dan S]

What would you tell him if he came in with a Clenched Fist over "Black Power", or a portrait of Che Guevara? How about "Viva la Raza"? Would those be racist too? Maybe a nice solid black Hammer and Sickle, is that hateful?

If the man got the work in the joint, it was a statement he chose to make, and it took stones, and he had to back it up. It may also have kept him alive.

Another thing to think on, the Swastika was, at one time, say, early sixties to late seventies, a pretty common piece, especially for scooter-trash. Didn't have a damn thing to do with nazis or racism.

If he had the stones to get it put on, and you hate it, you should have had the stones to tell him to take a hike.

.02

[Hunter Morrow]

I'm sure he's a mod who rode to the shop on his Piaggio. The only thing I don't like is you gave him a deliberately high price to get him to go away. Is that normal? I figure you could flatly decline to touch up somebody's iron cross and swastika tattoos.

[Dan S]

Oh yeah-don't misspell "Racist" if you tattoo it on someone.

[heathenist]

What would you tell him if he came in with a Clenched Fist over "Black Power", or a portrait of Che Guevara? How about "Viva la Raza"? Would those be racist too? Maybe a nice solid black Hammer and Sickle, is that hateful?

Comparing Black Power symbols to those of the Nazi's seems a little harsh. The former are symbols of pride, pride of overcoming discrimination and oppression, something all the white people who like to use the term "White Power" have never had to overcome, and are in fact the ones perpetuating that oppression. One symbol is promoting equality while the other is doing just the opposite. Black Power movement leaders didn't execute (or order the execution of) millions of people.

But yeah, this just sounds like an all around uncomfortable situation. Post updates.

[nmkcle]

Oh yeah-don't misspell "Racist" if you tattoo it on someone.

Dan, didn't mean to and was not trying to strike a nerve with the racist thing. My dilemma was whether or not I would be in the right to refuse to tattoo him. And as far as where it comes from. From his perspective... well I doubt that he knows it is a Hopi Indian sign as well as variations appearing in several other cultures before appearing in a George Lanz book and being adopted by Nazi party, thus becoming a symbol for tyranny, genocide and of course racism. He did not show up by the way and like I said, not here to judge, just wondering if I am an asshole for refusing to do something because I don't see things the way a customer does.

[TrixieFaux]

He did not show up by the way and like I said, not here to judge, just wondering if I am an asshole for refusing to do something because I don't see things the way a customer does.

For what it's worth--I don't think it would be an asshole move, but rather a display of character to refuse to tattoo a hate symbol. Glad for you that he didn't show up.

[Dan S]

Dan, didn't mean to and was not trying to strike a nerve with the racist thing. My dilemma was whether or not I would be in the right to refuse to tattoo him. And as far as where it comes from. From his perspective... well I doubt that he knows it is a Hopi Indian sign as well as variations appearing in several other cultures before appearing in a George Lanz book and being adopted by Nazi party, thus becoming a symbol for tyranny, genocide and of course racism. He did not show up by the way and like I said, not here to judge, just wondering if I am an asshole for refusing to do something because I don't see things the way a customer does.

No, man, you wouldn't be an asshole, you'd be standing up for what your beliefs are, and that's NEVER wrong. The racist thing did strike a nerve, as I mentioned, a lot of people used the swastika with absolutely no connection to "White Power", or nazi-ism, or any other political belief.

Bottom line-you gotta look at youself when you shave every morning, so if you don't feel right about doiing it, just tell the man "I don't do any work on swastikas". It's honest, it's non-judgmental, it's just your thing. I would bet he'd just walk it off.

[Abellve]

I don't do that stuff, not because I'm half Puerto Rican which is the case but because I choose not to makey money on stuff that's in direct opposition to my conscience. You don't have to pass judgment to tell someone straight up that they're entitled to get what they want but they won't get it from you. I understand that it can be difficult for the first time it walks in the door and you're unprepared so get prepared. Determine your boundaries on how you choose to make your living and stay true to them. Everyone I work with knows what I will or won't do and respects my decisions. What I believe I don't push on people but I believe firmly enough that I never feel conflicted. A lot of us got into all of this because we choose to live on our own terms. I've never felt the need to trade that in for a day's pay.

[Dan S]

Comparing Black Power symbols to those of the Nazi's seems a little harsh. The former are symbols of pride, pride of overcoming discrimination and oppression, something all the white people who like to use the term "White Power" have never had to overcome, and are in fact the ones perpetuating that oppression. One symbol is promoting equality while the other is doing just the opposite. Black Power movement leaders didn't execute (or order the execution of) millions of people.

But yeah, this just sounds like an all around uncomfortable situation. Post updates.

I believe you are seeing things a bit out of context.

In the first place, if we say as a fact that the Third Reich ended-up killing six million assorted peoples, then how is the swastika more of a "hate symbol" than the Hammer and Sickle, the insignia of the Stalinist regime that was responsible for the death of over sixty-million people?

As for the "Black Power" movement, you should do a little research. There were a fairly large number-not in the millions, certainly, but a fairly large number, killed by those espousing it. Maybe read-up a bit on the Nation of Islam, see what their early teachings regarding the White race were...and to a large extent still are.

Azatlan...now that's a real good one. The "Reconquista". Check that out and feel the love.

Last but not least, I will reiterate two points. One is that many people used the swastika without ANY political or racial connnotations in the not-too-distant past. It was actually a very common thing for bikers, especially, to either wear it or have it tattooed on them.

The second point is that if the work was done in a prison, it was quite likely to have been done in order to survive. Whites are a distinct minority in almost every prison in this country, and there are groups such as the BGF to name but one, who would dearly love to see that nminority erased. Once inside, many Whites band together for protection, and the swastika is a very common symbol of those groups.

White Power, Black Power, Brown Power...I put them all on the same plane. A racist is a racist, no matter what color he is.

[nmkcle]

I don't do that stuff, not because I'm half Puerto Rican which is the case but because I choose not to makey money on stuff that's in direct opposition to my conscience. You don't have to pass judgment to tell someone straight up that they're entitled to get what they want but they won't get it from you. I understand that it can be difficult for the first time it walks in the door and you're unprepared so get prepared. Determine your boundaries on how you choose to make your living and stay true to them. Everyone I work with knows what I will or won't do and respects my decisions. What I believe I don't push on people but I believe firmly enough that I never feel conflicted. A lot of us got into all of this because we choose to live on our own terms. I've never felt the need to trade that in for a day's pay.

Thanks. That is pretty much how I feel I just wanted some reassurance. I played the scenario out in my head, it just didn't go the way I planned. Lesson learned. Rather than beating around the bush I will just say sorry, can't help you with that.

[Dhopper]

I agree with Dan S. Racism is racism. My only problem is, you agreed to do something and you did not want to do it. There are a variety of tattoos that you could tattoo on a person and still be a prideful person. But if you like Dan S. said, are in federal prisons, white groups are the minority and you better have something to show who you are with.

[Dhopper]

nmkcle is the swastika the only symbol you would not tattoo?

[Tight-Lines]

White Power, Black Power, Brown Power...I put them all on the same plane. A racist is a racist, no matter what color he is.

Touché.

[nmkcle]

nmkcle is the swastika the only symbol you would not tattoo?

I did not mean to agree, as I said my contingency for this situation was flawed. And if you read the first part of the thread you will have the answer for this question.

Again to reiterate; the situation I was in questioning has nothing to do with a symbol. It has to do with me refusing to do something based on my beliefs, and whether or not I am still doing my job or just being a jerk. In the future when I refuse to do thing I do not believe in and the customer becomes angry because of it, they have that right. I can't get mad at them, for being mad at me for refusing to do their tattoo.

[nmkcle]

And I would tattoo a swastika, if it had absolutely zero Nazi affiliation.

[Dhopper]

I just asked if that is the only symbol you would not tattoo. What if it was an upside down cross or something to that effect. If he was Asian and ask to have it touched up, would that of made a difference? I ask because a guy I worked with would not tattoo anything satanic no matter what. Would 88 or SS be any different to you? Are you Jewish or a gypsy? you must not of been too against it when you gave him a price!

Maybe buyer's remorse?

[Dhopper]

And I would tattoo a swastika, if it had absolutely zero Nazi affiliation.

But it does in the western world.

[PhilB]

But it does in the western world.

Intent is everything: ManWoman