Lifting Thread;training for the tattooed warrior.

[lving4today]

Ok at the risk of completely embarrassing myself especially after @kylegrey posted those pictures, I was wondering if you guys could help me out and critique my form on squats:

I put the bench behind me to kind of attempt box squats to help get everything else down, but now it looks like it's just making me lean forward and I'm barely getting parallel if even. I tried another set without and got parallel, but had a quite prominent buttwink.

Fire away, and is there any advice on getting rid of the buttwink?

I wish I could just get the damn depth, but it hurts my hip joints too bad even after a solid skate session and limbering up

It's getting frustrating.

[Scott R]

@Scott R As we are in the early courtship stages its only fair I tell you I don't really look like this any more ,shame really cause wifey would gladly get shot of me for a night .

so your saying I have a chance?

[Scott R]

@lving4today have you tried putting say 10lb plates under your heals? I think it helps sit back ont he lift a bit and not flex at the hips

if you have pain doing squats I would suggest doing another exercise. lunges, weighted hip thrusts,heavy kettlebell throws all good if squats dont agree with you

[lving4today]

@Scott R I have not, but I'll give it a shot. I love the exercise, but it just doesn't seem to work for me no matter what I've tried thus far.

I feel the good stretch on my hammies, quads, and glutes, but I don't wanna run the risk of injury with a less than par form.

[Cork]

You have the exact problem I did and it's easy to fix. It just takes time and patience. @lving4today

First off, box squatting to a bench will never get you the proper depth unless you are about 7' tall. Caveman squat (see pic below). Hold it as long as you can, up to about 3 minutes. Focus on pushing your hips forward, knees out, chest up, and your lower back arched in the bottom position, this will help stretch A LOT of the connective tissue in your hips and open up your range of motion dramatically. Another thing, you are trying to sit back too far. In a squat you do need to sit back, but not so much. Your upper body should be able to hold a static upright position instead of leaning forward. This comes from too much emphasis on sitting back, which throws off your center of gravity. A lot of butt wink can also come from the inability to properly fire your glutes and hams, causing you to rely on your quads. When you wink your butt, you lose tension on the glutes and hams, making very hard to drive out of the bottom properly.

[lving4today]

You have the exact problem I did and it's easy to fix. It just takes time and patience. @lving4today

First off, box squatting to a bench will never get you the proper depth unless you are about 7' tall. Caveman squat (see pic below). Hold it as long as you can, up to about 3 minutes. Focus on pushing your hips forward, knees out, chest up, and your lower back arched in the bottom position, this will help stretch A LOT of the connective tissue in your hips and open up your range of motion dramatically. Another thing, you are trying to sit back too far. In a squat you do need to sit back, but not so much. Your upper body should be able to hold a static upright position instead of leaning forward. This comes from too much emphasis on sitting back, which throws off your center of gravity. A lot of butt wink can also come from the inability to properly fire your glutes and hams, causing you to rely on your quads. When you wink your butt, you lose tension on the glutes and hams, making very hard to drive out of the bottom properly.

Awesome ! Thank you. That's been the most in depth critique and solid advice. I posted on a body building forum a year ago and it was shit advice. Should I do the caveman for a certain amount o days or weeks or just before squatting?

[Kev]

@kylegrey what was your weight and BF% in those pics? I'm pretty sure at my current age, I'd be pretty hard pressed to get even close to that.

[Jaycel Adkins]

Hello,

This is a great thread.

I was wondering if anyone could speak to any experience they have had with using Kettlebells?

Finally got my sh*t together and found a RKC (Russian kettlebell instructor) semi-near me, so made an appointment to learn form, etc.

Any shared experience is greatly appreciated!

[hogg]

You have the exact problem I did and it's easy to fix. It just takes time and patience. @lving4today

First off, box squatting to a bench will never get you the proper depth unless you are about 7' tall. Caveman squat (see pic below). Hold it as long as you can, up to about 3 minutes. Focus on pushing your hips forward, knees out, chest up, and your lower back arched in the bottom position, this will help stretch A LOT of the connective tissue in your hips and open up your range of motion dramatically. Another thing, you are trying to sit back too far. In a squat you do need to sit back, but not so much. Your upper body should be able to hold a static upright position instead of leaning forward. This comes from too much emphasis on sitting back, which throws off your center of gravity. A lot of butt wink can also come from the inability to properly fire your glutes and hams, causing you to rely on your quads. When you wink your butt, you lose tension on the glutes and hams, making very hard to drive out of the bottom properly.

Excellent post, @Cork. Two tiny things:

I think you're saying that box squatting to a tall bench will never help with depth, and I agree. However, squatting to a low box has been very helpful to me.

I recently read this article by Tony Gentilcore about fixing butt wink. In it, there's a vid demonstrating a version of the stretch you posted above. He calls it a "rocking sumo squat stretch," and @lving4today may find it helpful.

The only other thing I wanted to caution against: don't squat in running shoes like the guy in that photo! I used to do that and found that I was leaning forward way too much. Think "weight on your heels" and find a shoe (Chuck Taylors, Nike Frees, etc) that will help you achieve that.

Good luck!

[Petri Aspvik]

Jaycel

Well, they are great. Cardio and strenght in one package. I usually use them as a warm up, but you xan easily do a whole program with them. Military presses, turkish get ups, swings, push presses are all great. Check out vids of Steve Cotter and Pavel Tsatsoulines enter the kettlebell.

[Petri Aspvik]

Btw. You always hear people saying that doing deads without shoes is better. How about squatting?

[kylegrey]

@kylegrey what was your weight and BF% in those pics? I'm pretty sure at my current age, I'd be pretty hard pressed to get even close to that.

@Kev Between 200 lb -215 ,as I didn't consistently weigh myself or use it to track my progress thats an approximate .The only time I measured body-fat I was easy into single digits albeit on calibers ,also I didn't really regard figures and trusted the mirror as a guide and the brutal advice of one person .Its a kind optical illusion and funny to hear shit like people debating the size of Arnies arms .

[Kev]

Btw. You always hear people saying that doing deads without shoes is better. How about squatting?

I do both deads and squats shoeless and prefer it- I just feel more balanced.

[RoryQ]

Some random thoughts, not from a position of claiming expertise... But just my few cents:-

Footwear:-

I started training in Chuck Taylors more or less by accident, and they were perfectly adequate. I'm pretty sure some of the strongest guys in the planet did a significant amount of training just wearing Chucks rather than expensive lifting shoes. Flat, stable sole and less give in the hard rubber heel of them than most athletic shoes.

With that said, I did eventually buy a pair of olympic lifting shoes for competing in the o-lifts, and they do make a difference: Even less give in the heel (because it's usually rubber-soled wood) and an elevated angle that basically mimicks the trick mentioned earlier in the thread, of squatting with someone under the heel. I only wore them when I was practising the olympic lifts but I guess the difference they made was probably something marginal but worth it if you were trying to come up out of a max effort snatch or clean. Haven't o-lifted in months but maybe I'll break them out again. Oddly enough I read a blog post the other day about how oly shoes are catching on with kettlebell sport competitors, which kind of makes sense.

The third thing I tried and pretty much wear the most (with Cons some days) were vibram five-fingers. They look retarded and I wouldn't like to run long distances in them like some people do, but they're essentially gloves for your feet. I reckon if you want to train barefoot but want some added grip and sole protection then these are a no-brainer. I've been wearing them for training for years and a strange side effect has been that my feet basically flattened and spread out. I can kind of grip the ground with my toes. I'm not sure I buy into the 'science' that vibram promote regarding the health benefits of all this, but I do think it's more natural than encasing your feet in something like a very padded athletic shoe if you're going to be lifting heavy objects.

Kettlebells:-

Never trained with Pavel, Dan John or any of the greats but I really like them. I've been using kettlebell fundamentals like swing variations (1 handed, 2 handed etc), snatches, TGUs, windmills, goblet squats etc for years as part of short metabolic conditioning blocks. I know there's an argument that they're essentially no more versatile than a dumbell, but I don't think that's the case. There's something about the KB that lends itself to quick changes and smooth transitions - clean and jerks and complexes and whatnot.

If I could keep just one KB exercise it would probably be the turkish get up - I've started using it as a whole body warm-up lately, I feel like it incorporates pretty much every joint in the body to execute. I think Gray Cook, the Functional Movement Screening guy, has made a whole DVD on this idea, but I haven't seen it.

I never understood why anyone would train exclusively with kettlebells or regard them as the ultimate tool for every occasion, but they're compact, portable and very useful for conditioning work.

[Cork]

@lving4today Don't do long static stretches before working out. I do that stretch either early mornings (when I lift in the afternoon) or my non-leg days.

@hogg The box squat is an incredible tool. The bench squat, not so much, haha.

@Jaycel Adkins I can respect kettlebell training, it can be pretty hard and fast paced, but I can't say much more on it. It does not provide the results that I am interested in. Although, I do take my 35lb KB and throw it for height. That's fun. Practice for the Highland Games, haha.

FWIW I used to use Chucks but I can't find a comfortable pair that fit my wide foot. I've been lifting in Vibrams for about 5 years now.

[RoryQ]

@Cork

I'm convinced that vibrams widen your feet. Some of the other 'barefoot' type sneakers that are available mention having wide toe boxes as a selling point. I have a pair of Vivo Barefoot that are pretty comfortable. A lot of conventional designs just feel really narrow and compressed if you go barefoot a lot. When I wear Converse it's usually just in the gym or shortish periods. If I wore them for days on end they start biting into the corners of my feet.

[Petri Aspvik]

I never understood why anyone would train exclusively with kettlebells or regard them as the ultimate tool for every occasion, but they're compact, portable and very useful for conditioning work.

I agree. There is a similar aspect to kettlebells as there is to crossfit. Religious... Many HC people only praise the basic movements (snatch etc) to obsession. That you shouldnt think outside the box. Similar to doing this and that machine in the gym and not doing compounds. Similar but not.

[lving4today]

Thanks guys all solid advice. What kind of box would be appropriate, I figured the bench was a cop out but was just going with what I had.

I work out with vans and I also have Nike 6.0. All I own is skate shoes.

[Cork]

A real box from EFS or something of the like would be ideal, obviously. At my gym I use these little step things up to a height where I break parallel.

[hogg]

"Or cinder blocks and a piece of wood," says the cheap guy. :)

Also, you should teach your cat to meow when you hit depth. I mean, if he's gonna hang around while you squat, put him to work.

[CultExciter]

Any advice for a guy who used to be skinny, but realized how much he loved beer?

[Jaycel Adkins]

Hello,

Thank you all for the thoughts on Kettlebells. I'm pretty excited to see how it works out.

Thank you as well for the posts on footwear, was not something I had on top of my mind, until reading the posts. I'll be shopping this weekend.

Best

[lving4today]

"Or cinder blocks and a piece of wood," says the cheap guy. :)

Also, you should teach your cat to meow when you hit depth. I mean, if he's gonna hang around while you squat, put him to work.

Ill just use him as the box, every time I touch my ass to his back and he meows I'll know it was a proper squat

[Petri Aspvik]

Any advice for a guy who used to be skinny, but realized how much he loved beer?

Welcome to my life. I loved beer and had a back surgery years and years ago. Im still loosiing the extra. Still loads to go, but all you can do is drink less, eat better and train/rest/train/rest etc. Start slow if you havent done anything in a while.

[RoryQ]

Mark Rippetoe on beer drinking and training (from his Q&A forum):-

Let's approach this from a strictly empirical standpoint. Virtually every lifter I know, and especially the very fucking strong ones, drinks some form of alcohol. All this theoretical shit aside, it doesn't seem to have adversely affected their training. Alcoholism is a different matter, but the moderate use of alcohol has been a part of training for 90% of the guys who train heavy since the concept was invented. It has been a part of every advanced society on the planet since people started hanging around together. We do it because we like it. I don't care what these fools misconstrue from peer-reviewed studies. Most lifters drink.

If you are concerned with the effects of 2 beers a day on your training, stop drinking and see if you think it makes you stronger. But most of the time this question is asked, it is asked by guys that don't lift heavy anyway and have therefore nothing to adversely affect. It is just one more minor distraction from the bigger picture of training hard, eating enough, and getting recovered so that you can train hard again.

He's speaking to more of a strength-focused approach, as opposed to someone who is interested in losing bodyfat and improving other aspects of their fitness, but it's basically sound advice: Drink in moderation if you can.

If someone is trying to lose weight or otherwise get lean then I guess drinking several thousand calories of beer every couple of nights is clearly going to retard that process, no matter how hard you hit the gym during the day.