Native American tattoos / designs

[Cork]

Im so easily confused, ''the NE USA doesnt have ancestry like that'' huh...????? no native americans? wow, so...... uuuhhh.??

Yeah, I think my statement is pretty true. There are some large tribes from up here (Erie, Susquehanna, Shawnee, etc...), but the lineage is fairly diluted. It is much more common to see stronger Native American blood in the midwest. I can't say I've ever met or seen anyone in my life so far who had dominant Native American blood. Most of the people around here descended from immigrants...or they are black and hispanic.

[Stitch626]

Seems to me (and this was kind of the original issue I wanted to pose) that it's actually the opposite and can be disrespectful because it's an outsider's two-second take on an entire culture that we just decided is "neat." Less a love of it, more a stereotyping of it. ..like Peter Pan. The lady head thing is kind of the worst offender, because it makes no sense -- but I still love those tattoos! I'm guessing it was never the point to be correct, just to draw a great design. And it certainly worked!

I'm glad there seems to be a generally positive response, especially what @Shmitty pointed out with the drawings at his station. And that PENDLETON PANTHER is pretty great! And Stitch, there are usually at least a few good books on the day-to-day of certain tribes from "back in the day" as well as their mythologies and adventure stories, which are awesome. Reading is an easy first step.

I see what your saying now, I guess it comes down to the context in which you get the tattoo and how the other person perceives it..

As for my own thing, I drew up some silly little one using the Iroquois flag I'll try to post it, as for all the books, Half my bookshelf is martial arts books, the rest is all books on Native Americans.. And I still can't find one for me to use as a base idea.

I'll post again later this weekend about my idea as a whole, if you guys don't mind see if I can get some feed back based off my other arm and what I want to do with my "native american arm"

[Scott R]

chris smith

[Scott R]

chris marchetto cheif head and beaux brady flash

[gougetheeyes]

@Scott R, those are great! Ok less talking, more showing.

A big back and a painting from Bailey Robinson. I'm sure most of you know his blog already, but just in case: Copper Beehive – Tattooing by Bailey Hunter Robinson

[Shannon Shirley]

Im gonna say this, If you grew up in it,but were just a kid,you might find all that stuff nostalgic. maybe you didn't, maybe you just find it nostalgic.you have some tattooers today sort of ''posing '' this early 20th century thing,oh well. we can't stop those that want to live inthe past. hell, what about medieval recreationism, whatever I say. to each thier own,It takes alot to offend me.yea ,Its been awhile since I ''tried'' to shock others, but somebody is always gonna try and push the buttons of others. I personally don't have any big native chief heads tattooed on me, but Ive got stuff that has nothing todo with being of irish/portugese decent, but it all has something to do with growing up in northern california as an American. We are a big ol mashpot. I like it.

@Avery Taylor

I've wondered about some of that biker flash you're talking about, Avery - what the context was, and how much people really thought about the significance of some of the symbols being used. I mean, it's not like it was Jondix using something in the context of an eastern repeat pattern, or whatever - it's the skulls, deaths heads, swastikas etc. I know there are a lot of traditional tattoo enthusiasts on here, but isn't that legacy fairly hard to celebrate?

I read a little about how it should be seen through a lense of tattooed people back then as outsiders and maybe an attempt at 'shock value' - but, would we accept the same argument today?

[Shannon Shirley]

I understand now what you meant, never been up there. most of the rest of america has a lot of history of indigenous people.I thought it strange. I guess they ran em out a long time ago.

Im so easily confused, ''the NE USA doesnt have ancestry like that'' huh...????? no native americans? wow, so...... uuuhhh.??

[Scott R]

like this one, women never to my knowledge had headress like a chief but nice to see this twist from eric jones

[Avery Taylor]

TIM LEHI: cry for the INDIAN !!!!

This one ain't too bad.

[carlxsagan]

So has nobody had any sort of feedback from an actual full blooded native american on tattoos of their culture? I love the imagery but would feel bad getting it considering my culture essentially committed genocide upon their's

[Stitch626]

Heh, so far I think the only two close to that are half bloods.. It would be nice to get a full blood in here btw that Cry for the indians tattoo is absolutely amazing!

[Avery Taylor]

So has nobody had any sort of feedback from an actual full blooded native american on tattoos of their culture? I love the imagery but would feel bad getting it considering my culture essentially committed genocide upon their's

I work with a lot of native people. The last thing that they are worried about is what white folks are getting tattooed. This is not a joke post. It is the truth.

[Stitch626]

What do you do that you work with them? (working on a research paper for medic school and they're my topic.. "Things you need to know as an EMS provider when dealing with "insert culture here"" essentially the do's and don'ts of various cultures and I picked American Indians)

[Avery Taylor]

What do you do that you work with them? (working on a research paper for medic school and they're my topic.. "Things you need to know as an EMS provider when dealing with "insert culture here"" essentially the do's and don'ts of various cultures and I picked American Indians)

I work for a non-profit organization that houses people that are considered "hard to house". Most of the people that I work have a serious mental illness or are drug addicted, and more often than not both.

[Scott R]

chris cleen

[joerob04]

love the colors on these tats, i've got some indian blood and would definitely consider something like this.

[Ironmask]

Here is one of an elder I did not long ago.. Not really the typical flash style though..

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[davelang]

Another half-breed right here. But I'm from Alaska, so none of our imagery has come up in this conversation, but here you go anyway...I did a fair amount of northwest native (aka Haida or more accurately formline) style tribal during the first 3/4 of my tattoo career while I was in washington state, but I moved back to Alaska four years ago and really started to research the style. I started working with a local carver and studied on paper first, eventually painting and working my way up into a carving apprenticeship. I know this style is usually a pain for a lot of tattooers and I understand. When someone brings a design of this style in and it is tattoo-able, it's usually still a lot of work and doesn't feel too rewarding until you are done. But after studying it, I love designing formline from the the ground up and tattooing it. I know this is pretty specialized and leans more towards polynesian tribal than whip shaded indian girl heads or navajo designs that are (or were) on trend for clothing and fashion, but some things are the same for all of those different variations on American Native Art.

When I see stuff in formline style, now I know right away if the tattooer found it, had to change parts for the tattoo and make up shapes, collage together a few different designs or bullshit something entirely. I image its what a Polynesian tribal artist sees when they look at designs cut and pasted by tattooers going strictly off of visual aesthetic and mixing designs regardless of meaning. "Nice half sleeve, so looking at this, from the parts I understand, your people are the shark fishermen of the mountains? That doesn't make sense".

At least now, I feel like I'm learning the language of it enough to design with respect to the culture and not have to worry about if it belongs to a tribe or clan or would offend anybody. It was one of the first questions I asked when I got here "what can I and can't I draw for people?" and was assured by my teachers that an eagle I draw does not belong to the Eagle clan, unless I were to directly copy a house front design, drum, blanket, etc that has been passed down and I appropriated the design without the right to do so. If I draw it and build it from scratch, it is my gift to give to the recipient. And within this style there is plenty of possible abstraction to go even further away from anything that wound be considered disrespectful or clan property.

How do the Native artists that I've talked to feel about people around the world getting their cultures artwork tattooed on them? They are fucking stoked. Especially since most of them have been commissioned by their friends and family to design tattoos for them. Just like any artists, they appreciate when it's done right and the medium and design work as one, they hate it when the design is great, but tattooed badly or tattooed well and badly designed. And I think, not to speak for all Alaska Native artists, but I know I'd rather see the art on as many people as possible, especially if I get to design it. I'd rather make the best native tattoos I can on anybody that not do it as much because of some cultural guilt. I know that this is a very specific corner of Native art, but I figured I'd chime in, because I was pretty cautious about the rules and stuff when I began to study. I've been lucky enough to design a fair amount of custom formline and even tattoo some of my carving designs. Lots of times the designs have stories, like the carving of the fish that I got to tattoo. When I carved that design I was illustrating a specific story about how Raven gave the Bullhead fish it's shape. If you look, the body is a Raven head. I won't bore you with the story, but when the customer came in who got the tattoo he asked "do you do that local native art stuff?" I said "'yeah, I carved that stuff right there", he saw that carving and went "that's bad ass. can I do that, but green instead of red?" and I was happy to give it to him. We didn't get all spiritual about the story and he was happy to get it because he thought it looked cool and he wanted some Alaskan art to remember the years he spent here. No problem, buddy. Have a seat.

[Graeme]

@davelang Great post, man.

I came across something really interesting when reading up about Bill Reid and formline drawing, which is that a lot of what we see in terms of carvings, jewellery, and paintings originated from Reid's study of traditional Haida tattoos:

When Reid began his career as a goldsmith, Haida style had lost much of its power due to the demoralizing effects of a century of colonization, disease, and culturally repressive Canadian laws. The vital essence of Haida style was no longer expressed. Reid searched early ethnographic publications and exhibitions in museum collections for exceptionally strong works executed by anonymous nineteenth century masters. He immersed himself in traditional Haida art, trying to understand the logic behind the form, a goal he reached at the end of his second creative phase.

Nearly half of Reid’s career was spent at his workbench, “walking forward into the past,” making objects of adornment, which, in a not-too-distant Haida past, were themselves extensions of tattoo designs: crests figures and guardian spirits carved in the skin, projecting identity and spiritual connections among Haida people.

Bill Reid Gallery - Permanent Exhibition

So, in a sense, tattooing these designs is really taking it full-circle. There are a few really cool things online about Haida tattoos as well, like this: Haida Tattoo - The Bill Reid Centre - Simon Fraser University

I grew up on the West Coast of Canada, and I love this style of art, but as a whitey I have a hard time getting it as-is on me so I've been trying to find ways to take some of what I find powerful about Haida art, as well as myth and legend, and interpret it in a way that doesn't feel so appropriative. My (in-progress) sleeve is an interpretation of the Raven myths, and because it's being done by Thomas Hooper it's interpreted through a sort of hermetic lens with some sacred geometry, Ernst Hackel references, and so on. The eye of the raven is referenced directly from Bill Reid's drawing on the cover of the book The Raven Steals the Light. I'm thrilled with it. I've been also thinking of one day getting a gagiid mask, maybe done sort of in the style of a hannya. I'm still figuring that one out though.

- - - Updated - - -

And just because I love to geek out on this stuff, here's a picture of a print I bought last summer by an artist named Jonathan Erickson. From what I understand, he's mostly working in jewellery right now, but the guy at the gallery said that he's also done tattoo designs...kind of figures that I'd be drawn to art done by a guy who also designs tattoos. Anyway, I think it's super cool. I need to get it properly framed still.

[davelang]

"My (in-progress) sleeve is an interpretation of the Raven myths, and because it's being done by Thomas Hooper it's interpreted through a sort of hermetic lens with some sacred geometry, Ernst Hackel references, and so on. The eye of the raven is referenced directly from Bill Reid's drawing on the cover of the book The Raven Steals the Light. I'm thrilled with it. I've been also thinking of one day getting a gagiid mask, maybe done sort of in the style of a hannya. I'm still figuring that one out though."

That sounds rad! Hope to see those tattoos one day. I'm also in love with american traditional and had Chad Koeplinger put a raven head with a sun it's mouth on my hand at the 2011 SFO convention. (I'm not sure I posted your quote the proper way, I'm still figuring this computer stuff out). I see tons of room for interpreting the stories and legends over a variety of styles. Stories could be illustrated like japanese style interpretations of their legends, broken down and fit within the style of american traditional like Chad did for me and explored in the abstraction of form line tribal, but taken more in the large scale tribal style of the europeans... I'm excited to explore these in the future.

[SnowyPlover]

Davelang, it's great to have you here - I'm a big admirer of PNW Native art. Your bear/salmon carving would be an incredible inspiration for a full back piece!

I saw this piece by Rory Keating earlier in the week, it's a large scale orca which I found interesting.

[Graeme]

"My (in-progress) sleeve is an interpretation of the Raven myths, and because it's being done by Thomas Hooper it's interpreted through a sort of hermetic lens with some sacred geometry, Ernst Hackel references, and so on. The eye of the raven is referenced directly from Bill Reid's drawing on the cover of the book The Raven Steals the Light. I'm thrilled with it. I've been also thinking of one day getting a gagiid mask, maybe done sort of in the style of a hannya. I'm still figuring that one out though."

That sounds rad! Hope to see those tattoos one day. I'm also in love with american traditional and had Chad Koeplinger put a raven head with a sun it's mouth on my hand at the 2011 SFO convention. (I'm not sure I posted your quote the proper way, I'm still figuring this computer stuff out). I see tons of room for interpreting the stories and legends over a variety of styles. Stories could be illustrated like japanese style interpretations of their legends, broken down and fit within the style of american traditional like Chad did for me and explored in the abstraction of form line tribal, but taken more in the large scale tribal style of the europeans... I'm excited to explore these in the future.

To quote in a reply, you can just use the "Reply With Quote" button at the bottom of the post, but either way works.

I don't have any good pictures of the sleeve-in-progress at the moment and I'll hold off on taking some until it's finished but here's one of the raven's head that Thomas posted on his instagram:

I would love to see your Chad Koeplinger raven head if you have any pictures.

[davelang]

I saw this piece by Rory Keating earlier in the week, it's a large scale orca which I found interesting.

That's sick! That's what I'm talking about with the large scale formline! Shit... I think we may have highjacked this thread. Might have to start another specific to this style.