Ink Masters

[Dennis]

Finally watched an episode from the first season. Holy fuck. It is painful. Al Fliction is such a joke, especially his half-assed rip off of a Pavel Angel tattoo.

This was probably mentioned somewhere else in this long thread, but I had to air my frustrations with such a dumb show.

I'm surprised that some really talented and recognized artists agreed to go on something like this. Strange.

[Colored Guy]

Nope, I've watched every episode. It's like a train wreck. I can't stop watching. That being said I haven't liked a single tattoo on the show. I feel really bad for the "canvases."

Yeah, but where else can you KNOW when and where a train wreck will be? Good ink.. few and far between. Again, the canvases are gettin' what they paid for...

Rob

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Am I really the only asshole who loves watching the people get shitty tattoos? I love that the judges dont say anything.

Like slapstick comedy, 'cept this shit ain't funny.... russian roulette with a tattoo gun. Every week there is one less gun. But the chances of getting a good tattoo do get better.

Rob

[slayer9019]

I'm done caring about this show. No need for it. Sticking to quality programming like Gypsy Gentleman and Tattoo Age.

[BoMcConaghie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056kXT1JJis"

[irezumi]

^I know this video was posted already, and this response was made, but I feel like it needs to be emphasized again.^

AS FAR AS THE TATTOO COPY RIGHT THING..... Don't take this the wrong way, but fucking get over it. SERIOUSLY it's all copying. EVERYONE STEALS: It's a matter of who you're stealing from if you have taste and you're stealing from Hardy, Roberts, Jerry, Malone, ETC... You're following tradition.

It's been this way since tattooing started. It's just easier than it used to be.

[Bunny Switchblade]

AS FAR AS THE TATTOO COPY RIGHT THING..... Don't take this the wrong way, but fucking get over it. SERIOUSLY it's all copying. EVERYONE STEALS: It's a matter of who you're stealing from if you have taste and you're stealing from Hardy, Roberts, Jerry, Malone, ETC... You're following tradition.

I haven't even seen the episode, don't care, I'm so sick of all the under twenties, and tens and five year old tattooers acting like they were the first person to come up with a design, it's all been done before.

I have seen close friends and artist straight rip off Richards original paintings tattoos I have posted up online, here, instagram, twitter, tumbler, and then no reference credit, or original design cred was given... then seeing all the killer remarks, etc... And each time I get all pissy about it Richard says... Can't get mad, if you put it out there someone is going to use it. , seen people rip off blackhearts shit, seen em rip off Major TM Logos, I have even ripped on Stella Artois Logo.

Once you put it online.....it's as good as flash!

I directly said that to Kristel and it wasn't really received very well......but it was definitely traced and even shaded in the same manner as two of her tattoos....so i can see her point!

BUT......once you put it on someone or post the drawing online....it's as good as flash and someone is gonna straight up trace it at some point and put it on someone else!

Isn't this why a lot of tattoo artists and collectors don't like to post the custom tattoos they have on them and have done?

I still don't want to watch the show....and all this just adds to me staying away from it all!

[Patriot Ink Tattoo]

Unfortunately, I am guilty of doing this. A client brought me a really nice line drawing of a cardinal. I was amazed that it was good enough to use without redrawing, and the client was very clear that they wanted it exactly like it was. (Which I was very busy that day, and bluntly, I didn't feel like fucking with it. lol. Long story short, it turned out to to be Mr. Ross Nagle's cardinal tattoo. Which was uploaded to LST before I realized what I had done. Talk about feeling like a tool! I would like to add that Mr. Nagle is my favorite traditional tattooers and absolutely meant NO disrespect.

[irezumi]

We are all guilty of theft at one point or another. Intentional or not. Doesnt necessarily have to be an actual tattoo or flash.

"One day someone will steal your secret sauce and the cycle will be complete"

~Steven Powers

[JAllen]

The purpose of tv production, especially in "reality" shows, is to make you either love it or hate it. Its intentional. If they can stir conversation about their shows, then they always benefit. Its in a humans nature to be curious. So even when people mention how horrible the show may is, that will make more people tune in just to see the horror. Its always easier to push something down a hill than up it, so its purpose driven to make the judges seem careless and reckless as well as all the other controversial stuff like law suits and rivalry, etc.

I've not had cable for a long time and have cut tv viewing way down and recently my converter box crapped out, so that meant zero tv viewing. It really altered my reality in a positive way. And I was only watching a couple hours a day. I'd never tell anyone else what to do, but I'm goin to try make any attempts promote elements of positivity in an effort to make it the thing that is pushed down the hill and not up it.

[kylegrey]

We are all guilty of theft at one point or another. Intentional or not. Doesnt necessarily have to be an actual tattoo or flash.

"One day someone will steal your secret sauce and the cycle will be complete"

~Steven Powers

Ha, cool heres one of my favourites - " It's not where you take things from - its where you take them to "

Jean Luc Goddard .

[CultExciter]

The only way to learn how to draw a tattoo rose is to look at those that have already done it. I feel like tattooers almost instinctively look at Mike Malone or Scott Sylvia for reference. But, once you have drawn enough of them, you're able to understand the anatomy enough to design one without looking at reference. It's just how tattoo art is done.

I don't understand the copyright issue behind tattoos. Because it definitely brings into the question of "ownership," and that could go further down the rabbit hole.

[slayer9019]

The only way to learn how to draw a tattoo rose is to look at those that have already done it. I feel like tattooers almost instinctively look at Mike Malone or Scott Sylvia for reference. But, once you have drawn enough of them, you're able to understand the anatomy enough to design one without looking at reference. It's just how tattoo art is done.

I don't understand the copyright issue behind tattoos. Because it definitely brings into the question of "ownership," and that could go further down the rabbit hole.

While I probably don't have a right to step into this conversation as I am anything but an artist, but I do see very similar parallels in my chosen profession. There is a razor's edge when it comes to using something as inspiration vs straight up theft. That on top of the fact that inspiration vs theft also has a million shades of grey to add to that argument. While some people would say that an instance would be theft others would be flattered that someone used their idea.

Another problem is the way information is shared nowadays and how far of a reach people have. You look at my lifetime (which is pretty damn short compared to many). You went from having to haul your ass to a library or actually be physically in the presents of something to copy it. Most of the time if someone was showing you, they wanted to share it. Yea there are magazines, and the such but they were still filtered. Now you have the internet, and all of it's interworkings with information being sucked up and spread EVERYWHERE. Nobody usually provides the source and information moves quickly. Once someone posts something, it lives forever somewhere in cyberspace. Even if you are on top of it, shit can get out. A person can take out their phone, snap a picture of your tattoo, upload it to (instagram, flikr, facebook, LST, whatever the hell else), then someone copies it from their and uploads it elsewhere, and so on and so on. Simply mind boggling. (I could also get into the technical aspects of the fact that once uploaded, NOTHING is ever deleted, ever, period.)

[CultExciter]

That on top of the fact that inspiration vs theft also has a million shades of grey to add to that argument.

You mean 50 shades of grey? My lips quiver at the thought.

[slayer9019]

You mean 50 shades of grey? My lips quiver at the thought.

no.....not at all. just a remix of a phase my artist mom used to say about me always wearing black, and my wardrobe is made up of a million shades of black. Which was true with the newer stuff being black and the older washed out stuff being a dark grey. Also referring to the "grey area' in opinions. Why does that book have that name! Just like twilight ruining vampires :(

[CultExciter]

I was just making a lame pop culture reference! I knew what you meant. @slayer9019

ps...i might have had a few beverages when i wrote that.

[Colored Guy]

Once you put it online.....it's as good as flash!

I directly said that to Kristel and it wasn't really received very well......but it was definitely traced and even shaded in the same manner as two of her tattoos....so i can see her point!

BUT......once you put it on someone or post the drawing online....it's as good as flash and someone is gonna straight up trace it at some point and put it on someone else!

Isn't this why a lot of tattoo artists and collectors don't like to post the custom tattoos they have on them and have done?

I still don't want to watch the show....and all this just adds to me staying away from it all!

True, any art is up for grabs once it hits the internets. A continuation of the guy who invented the wheel.. still getting fucked in any way imagineable.

Rob

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We are all guilty of theft at one point or another. Intentional or not. Doesnt necessarily have to be an actual tattoo or flash.

"One day someone will steal your secret sauce and the cycle will be complete"

~Steven Powers

I had a tattoo done back in May. It was something I saw on a site that makes stencils for airbrushed tattoos. I emailed the site owner, asking him if he had a line drawing of the stencil, which I offered to pay him for. He sent me back a real good picture of the finished product, all he wanted in return was a shot of the finished tattoo.

I imported the picture into my CAD program and fixed it up quite a bit, then I printed it out and it was used for the stencil. I would have felt funny about it if I had blatantly ripped off the design.

Rob

[YOMONEY]

i cant go through 50 something pages of "ink masters".. but this season is really irresponsable, the way the winners of the flash challenge can pick who everyone tattoos, trying to fuck shit up for their oppenants, in hopes they give somebody a messed up tattoo.. these people on the show.. they dont seem too concerned.. everyone invovled should be ashamed..

[ShawnPorter]

True, any art is up for grabs once it hits the internets. A continuation of the guy who invented the wheel.. still getting fucked in any way imagineable.

Rob

I keep seeing people say that... Once it's on the internet, it's up for grabs, people steal it all the time, etc. Always about tattoos. Lets see the same people be that accepting when bootleg PRINTS of their stuff start getting sold. I doubt these artists would be as charitable and accepting. I don't see the difference.

[Graeme]

I wish the Grime interview in TAM #2 was online because he says a lot of great things about inspiration versus copying in it...he talks about this for five or so pages so I can't copy it out but here are a couple of excerpts. (admins, if it isn't okay to post this stuff, feel free to delete this)

Let's talk about good ways to be influenced by other people's work and not copy it. Say you like a certain way somebody did something; we can just stick with the rose. Say you like the way they did a certain thing, a certain petal...so you analyze why you liked it and try to do something similar but not look at the thing and consciously try not to do that exact thing, but to figure out why you liked it, what set it apart...

Sometimes it has to be as simple as just like biting a bullet and saying, "Well, I can't do that rose like that 'cause it's too close to the way so and so did it." I don't want to do what someone else is doing; it's like being second best...being a "Stunt Double", and I don't want to be that. I try not to do it.

Grime on working with unfamiliar imagery:

If it's something I don't think I'm going to do a good job on or I think when I'm finished it's going to be a mediocre tattoo, I don't want to do it cause I don't want to do those tattoos. I want to be excited and more than that, I want the client to be excited. If I'm approaching the tattoo like "this is so fucking stupid and blah blah blah" and being a crybaby and I can't figure it out then why am I tattooing them? They need to go to somebody that's going to give them better service; they need to go to somebody who's going to give them more than what I'm going to give them. If I can't give them some real effort then I have no business tattooing them...at least in this custom tattoo arena.

Obviously not everything applies in the case of Ink Master...

Also, before anybody jumps on me for this, I realise that not everybody is in Grime's position and can pick and choose the tattoos he does and still has a waiting list years long, and that it's unrealistic for a tattooer to be excited about every tattoo he/she does, but I still think he's saying something worthwhile about the art of tattooing.

[David Flores]

Finally watched an episode from the first season. Holy fuck. It is painful. Al Fliction is such a joke, especially his half-assed rip off of a Pavel Angel tattoo.

This was probably mentioned somewhere else in this long thread, but I had to air my frustrations with such a dumb show.

I'm surprised that some really talented and recognized artists agreed to go on something like this. Strange.

I think I said this before in this thread, but both tattoos suck. Is it really neccesary to copyright a turd? Clearly the inkmaster dude couldn't quite pull off the same thing the other dude did, but both just leave me shaking my head. It looks like someone started watching Bob Ross and just said fuck it after ten minutes and put some swiss cheese at the bottom. If there is a lesson to be learned, it would be cheat off the smart kid, or know what the fuck you are capable of duplicating. If I someone asks for a tattoo of something the first thing you do is find reference, in a book internet, magazine, whatever or if it's imagery that is used in tattooing then you look at how other people tattooed it. I feel like everything is ripped off to some degree, but when people create good tattoos people are less concerned about the source of an image. A great tattooer who will go nameless, but is more talented and wiser than me, recently told me their are two kinds of people, those who use google search for reference and liars.

I think there is a clear difference between something like this and selling bootleg copies of peoples art. I mean even flash I feel if you buy it or a book that is a collection of flash you have the right to tattoo it, even repaint the images and give credit, but you can't just sell someone's images as your own. I think it's okay to tattoo it, because that's kind of the agreement when you buy stuff like that and yes you collect money, but it's for the service of applying a tattoo. I think ethically it's not right to misrepresent and image to a customer as something created custom for them and I would be more concerned about the client in this case. The other point is someone is going to try to straight rip off another tattoo, is usually going to create a straight up busted version of it, because pictures of other people's tattoo suck as reference. If you are going to reference it properly, you most likely are going to have to redraw the whole thing anyway.

I think there is a clear dropoff in talent this year. Maybe again its just tattooers and styles I am not used to seeing, but for my book sucking is not a style.

[Dennis]

I think I said this before in this thread, but both tattoos suck. Is it really neccesary to copyright a turd? Clearly the inkmaster dude couldn't quite pull off the same thing the other dude did, but both just leave me shaking my head.

It isn't even that he just blatantly ripped off the tattoo, it's that he kept restating that it was "his interpretation of heaven's gates" to justify the design at the bottom (which could've easily been changed). I don't understand why he would choose this design and try to pass it off as a representation of some kind of gate. I actually really like the original tattoo! Pavel's work is fantastic.

As for this season, the only one that I like (and have heard of) is Jesse Smith. His work is crazy! I wouldn't get any of it personally, but he really shines in his style.

[David Flores]

As for this season, the only one that I like (and have heard of) is Jesse Smith. His work is crazy! I wouldn't get any of it personally, but he really shines in his style.

Is that the dude who wears long sleeves, to hide that he has no tattoos. Doesn't do much for me, but I agree he is probably the golden boy this season.

[Graeme]

Is that the dude who wears long sleeves, to hide that he has no tattoos. Doesn't do much for me, but I agree he is probably the golden boy this season.

Yeah I have been thinking that this season of Ink Master pretty much closes the tattooers with little to no tattoos debate, not that it was ever much of a debate to begin with. It doesn't say much about tattooers with tattoos either though...

[Ray Karpis]

Wife and I cringed the entire episode this past week watching these guys and girls do awful pinups. I would have a stroke if I got up off table, looked in the mirror, and saw some of those hideous faces on my skin.

[Petri Aspvik]

Is that the dude who wears long sleeves, to hide that he has no tattoos. Doesn't do much for me, but I agree he is probably the golden boy this season.

Jesse has tattoos. He has a chestpiece, work in his legs if I remember correctly...

edit. You can see part of the chestpiece in this caricature

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/91000/Jesse-Smith-Caricature-from-Loose-Screw-Tattoo--91331.jpg