Ink Masters

[TrixieFaux]

Seems like if you aren't that good or well known, it would help your business... but if you're already respected, it might not be worth your while to compete as one of the artists.

I understand why the judges agree to do these shows, though. Everyone wants to make money.

[Colored Guy]

The artist I use is a lady and she was approached for a "tattoo wives" show. It was to be another dramatized offering and she declined. I never heard anything more about it.

Rob

[Graeme]

The artist I use is a lady and she was approached for a "tattoo wives" show. It was to be another dramatized offering and she declined. I never heard anything more about it.

Rob

TV producers are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't they? Jesus wept.

[ian]

I'm watching it now, this show is horrible.

[G.Uristti]

Being on this show basically ruins your chance of being respected by the real people in the industry.

what does that mean exactly? the real people in the tattoo industry?

ive been to plenty of conventions where the original cast of the show has also been tattooing. those guys and girls are working hard just like everyone else. theyre definitely not sitting around taking pics and showing off how cool they are. and i know from personal experience that they are getting respect cause they are showing that they are workers not jackassed reality tv personalities.

[Brock Varty]

what does that mean exactly? the real people in the tattoo industry?

ive been to plenty of conventions where the original cast of the show has also been tattooing. those guys and girls are working hard just like everyone else. theyre definitely not sitting around taking pics and showing off how cool they are. and i know from personal experience that they are getting respect cause they are showing that they are workers not jackassed reality tv personalities.

By that statement I mean the people I identify with. The people that worry about the diluting of their craft due to the overexposure. The people that know that TV coverage and media access brings more customers and more money into the industry, but also the same people that know that may not be a good thing. Tattooing is a personal, sacred thing...my opinion is that if you agreed to do that show...you are doing it for the tv coverage. What other reason would their be? And if you are doing it for the coverage it probably means that their work doesn't really earn them the clientel they want.

Lets face it. No one on that show is a world class tattooer. If they are then I would love to see it. Everything I know says otherwise. Now, while I am saying all of this stuff that basically slanders everyone on that show....I do agreee that the show and it's contestants are worthwhile. It is entertainment for the public. I know that the show will showcase whatever is most entertaining, whether or not they are a good artist. I also wanted to make sure that it is understood that I am aware that these people probably work very hard, they may be very popular at some conventions and they may get lots of clientel. But all of that, the clientel, conventions, and attention, I wouldn't want. It isn't real. It's because they were on tv and the public doesn't really know how to determine if someone on tv is good. They assume that "hey, if your on tv, you must be really good."

More power to you if you see it a different way. I just plain old don't...

I guess it depends on who you consider "the industry". Winning Inkmasters or Best Ink probably won't get you invited to State Of Grace or Ink N Iron, but could definitely get you a gig as token tattooer celebrity in a lesser known show or traveling convention and stay pretty busy and make some good money. The problem is the shelf life for a reality tv star is pretty short, and when people forget who you are and you can't just be the dude from the tattoo show, then it comes down to if you put on good tattoos.

My "the industry" comment meant the people who are globally respected because of their work and their care for tattooing and the craft. The "real" people in the industry to me are the poeple who are able to appreciate the things that tv and media exposure have brought to tattooing, and at the same time know that it may not be a good thing. The poeple who let their work speak for themselves and who have a genuine love for tattooing.

Basically I meant what you said. If your on the show it will almost cetainly lead to more clientel and opportunity, but, it isn't the clientel and opportunity that I respect.

[Therinx]

I'm watching it now, this show is horrible.

It's entertaining, if you watch it for reasons other than seeing good tattoos.

[reverend1]

It's entertaining, if you watch it for reasons other than seeing good tattoos.

I watched the second episode last night, there was nothing else on. I have to say I didn't like any of the tattoo's. The two dragons were appalling. I'm not sure why you would agree to be tattooed by these people in that format.

[Scott R]

i saw a vid with richard stell in it talking with Peck and nunez. I dont know if it was for the show or not maybe @Jennifer Stell would enlighten us.

[David Flores]

By that statement I mean the people I identify with. The people that worry about the diluting of their craft due to the overexposure. The people that know that TV coverage and media access brings more customers and more money into the industry, but also the same people that know that may not be a good thing. Tattooing is a personal, sacred thing...my opinion is that if you agreed to do that show...you are doing it for the tv coverage. What other reason would their be? And if you are doing it for the coverage it probably means that their work doesn't really earn them the clientel they want.

Lets face it. No one on that show is a world class tattooer. If they are then I would love to see it. Everything I know says otherwise. Now, while I am saying all of this stuff that basically slanders everyone on that show....I do agreee that the show and it's contestants are worthwhile. It is entertainment for the public. I know that the show will showcase whatever is most entertaining, whether or not they are a good artist. I also wanted to make sure that it is understood that I am aware that these people probably work very hard, they may be very popular at some conventions and they may get lots of clientel. But all of that, the clientel, conventions, and attention, I wouldn't want. It isn't real. It's because they were on tv and the public doesn't really know how to determine if someone on tv is good. They assume that "hey, if your on tv, you must be really good."

More power to you if you see it a different way. I just plain old don't...

My "the industry" comment meant the people who are globally respected because of their work and their care for tattooing and the craft. The "real" people in the industry to me are the poeple who are able to appreciate the things that tv and media exposure have brought to tattooing, and at the same time know that it may not be a good thing. The poeple who let their work speak for themselves and who have a genuine love for tattooing.

Basically I meant what you said. If your on the show it will almost cetainly lead to more clientel and opportunity, but, it isn't the clientel and opportunity that I respect.

I guess my point is who determines who or what the industry is? Their is nothing industrial about tattooing, and the term itself kind of has connotations to Hollywood. To some degree it's like you said it's measured upon talent and respect from a global community, but part of it is a popularity contest and a who knows who game. Bottom line not everyone can be one of the cool kids, but I think your statement has a lot of truth to it, I read an article somewhere about someone breaking down why they didn't go on the show and they mentioned (i'm paraphrasing at best) that you basically now have to deal with people who are more interested in TV than tattoos, among other reasons, I think there is a link to it somewhere in this thread. There were clearly people on the first season that sucked, B Tat, Al Fliction have no business tattooing people, Shane, James, Josh, Tommy at least showed they can put on a good tattoo, maybe not the best tattoo but still, when people forget about the show at least they can rely on their work.

I guess the only thing I try to remember is that as big as tattooing has become it's still a pretty small tight nit community among tattooers especially within regions and while these contestants might not be the best tattooers, that doesn't mean they aren't respected or friends for that matter who would be considered top tattooers.

[G.Uristti]

@Brock Varty so whats your take on the norman colins documentary? where his distaste for lyle tuttle is mentioned. technically if that documentary holds any water the dilution started way before tv.

the growth of an industry dictates that these types of things will happen. its up the people involved to keep the records straight. its not the involvement thats the problem its what they bring to the table while involved.

out of curiosity, do you tattoo?

[Brock Varty]

I guess my point is who determines who or what the industry is? Their is nothing industrial about tattooing, and the term itself kind of has connotations to Hollywood. To some degree it's like you said it's measured upon talent and respect from a global community, but part of it is a popularity contest and a who knows who game. Bottom line not everyone can be one of the cool kids, but I think your statement has a lot of truth to it, I read an article somewhere about someone breaking down why they didn't go on the show and they mentioned (i'm paraphrasing at best) that you basically now have to deal with people who are more interested in TV than tattoos, among other reasons, I think there is a link to it somewhere in this thread. There were clearly people on the first season that sucked, B Tat, Al Fliction have no business tattooing people, Shane, James, Josh, Tommy at least showed they can put on a good tattoo, maybe not the best tattoo but still, when people forget about the show at least they can rely on their work.

I guess the only thing I try to remember is that as big as tattooing has become it's still a pretty small tight nit community among tattooers especially within regions and while these contestants might not be the best tattooers, that doesn't mean they aren't respected or friends for that matter who would be considered top tattooers.

I think the industry viewpoint is subjective to each persons experience. To a tattooer that may feel as I do then the industry would likely be focused around other professionals who feel similar. To someone who has gained alot from media exposure, the industry would include people like them and everyone else. To someone involved with a supplier or some fringe company that makes money off tattooing, the industry includes about anyone who can make them money.

In the end, you are right. No matter how big tattooing and tattoos have gotten publicly, the community is still as small or as large as you choose to make it. And that is something I fail to consider when talking about this with other people.

@Brock Varty so whats your take on the norman colins documentary? where his distaste for lyle tuttle is mentioned. technically if that documentary holds any water the dilution started way before tv.

the growth of an industry dictates that these types of things will happen. its up the people involved to keep the records straight. its not the involvement thats the problem its what they bring to the table while involved.

out of curiosity, do you tattoo?

Maybe I am not thinking clearly, but I fail to see the connection between Sailor Jerry's dislike of Lyle Tuttle and the "diltuion". When I mentioned dilution, it was intended to reference the amount of bullshit, misinformation and bad work that has been injected into the tattoo world via modern media outlets, tv, etc.

Also, you are absolutely correct when you mention the growth of an industry. In any industry that grows the way tattoing has, these things will happen. And I completely agree that it is up to the people that care and the people involved to keep it straight.

Sometimes I question whether the incredible growth of tattooing is even good at all. I know this may sound like a stretch, but, tattooing would have sustained itself without media help. Sure, all of the things that media brought to tattooing are great(more exposure, relaxed public opinion, more money, more opportunity), but are they a worthwhile trade for the incredible intimacy and power of what tattooing was(sometimes it still is). I am sure these questions all depend on who you are and how you have benefitted from tattooing...

And to answer your question, no, I do not tattoo. I am good friends with several tattooers that share the same viewpoint I do. My views are part of what helped me gain said friends.

So, keep in mind, that if you find what I am saying stupid, you could always just say "fuck this guy, he doesn't even tattoo". I think regardless of what your viewpoint is(tattooer or not), all of the things I am talking about are valid.

I would love to continue this conversation, but as this thread is specifically about Ink Masters and I am now pretty far off course...Is there somewhere we can move this discussion to?

[gougetheeyes]

You guys can PM each other to plan a meetup where you can hug it out -- or Guy will just stand you in front of his bathroom door and shoot you with arrows :D

[Brock Varty]

<---Free hugs from this guy.

[G.Uristti]

I think the industry viewpoint is subjective to each persons experience. To a tattooer that may feel as I do then the industry would likely be focused around other professionals who feel similar. To someone who has gained alot from media exposure, the industry would include people like them and everyone else. To someone involved with a supplier or some fringe company that makes money off tattooing, the industry includes about anyone who can make them money.

In the end, you are right. No matter how big tattooing and tattoos have gotten publicly, the community is still as small or as large as you choose to make it. And that is something I fail to consider when talking about this with other people.

Maybe I am not thinking clearly, but I fail to see the connection between Sailor Jerry's dislike of Lyle Tuttle and the "diltuion". When I mentioned dilution, it was intended to reference the amount of bullshit, misinformation and bad work that has been injected into the tattoo world via modern media outlets, tv, etc.

Also, you are absolutely correct when you mention the growth of an industry. In any industry that grows the way tattoing has, these things will happen. And I completely agree that it is up to the people that care and the people involved to keep it straight.

Sometimes I question whether the incredible growth of tattooing is even good at all. I know this may sound like a stretch, but, tattooing would have sustained itself without media help. Sure, all of the things that media brought to tattooing are great(more exposure, relaxed public opinion, more money, more opportunity), but are they a worthwhile trade for the incredible intimacy and power of what tattooing was(sometimes it still is). I am sure these questions all depend on who you are and how you have benefitted from tattooing...

And to answer your question, no, I do not tattoo. I am good friends with several tattooers that share the same viewpoint I do. My views are part of what helped me gain said friends.

So, keep in mind, that if you find what I am saying stupid, you could always just say "fuck this guy, he doesn't even tattoo". I think regardless of what your viewpoint is(tattooer or not), all of the things I am talking about are valid.

I would love to continue this conversation, but as this thread is specifically about Ink Masters and I am now pretty far off course...Is there somewhere we can move this discussion to?

you have good points and your correct this is about ink masters. so lets yell about that. i think the show in general is stupid mainly cause of who they have on it. i personally dont think even the judges could pull off a lot of the stuff they are asking the contestants to do but, i like watching it so i can yell at the tv. my rants are completely warranted for once. lol if you want to continue our other convo feel free to inbox me

[posterboy7596]

I just re-watched the Kore Flatmo interview the other day. I like what he said about magazine features, and awards and such not being validation. He also says some interesting stuff about how mediocre shit(I'm not saying the show is or isn't) doesn't really affect the top notch stuff at the end of the day. It's just a tv show. People's reasons for doing it aren't really any of my business. I'm going to watch it because it's interesting to watch...train wreck or not.

[Mr. Smith]

I just re-watched the Kore Flatmo interview the other day. I like what he said about magazine features, and awards and such not being validation. He also says some interesting stuff about how mediocre shit(I'm not saying the show is or isn't) doesn't really affect the top notch stuff at the end of the day. It's just a tv show. People's reasons for doing it aren't really any of my business. I'm going to watch it because it's interesting to watch...train wreck or not.

Yup. This pretty much sums up most of my feelings.

[Hogrider]

I just re-watched the Kore Flatmo interview the other day. I like what he said about magazine features, and awards and such not being validation. He also says some interesting stuff about how mediocre shit(I'm not saying the show is or isn't) doesn't really affect the top notch stuff at the end of the day. It's just a tv show. People's reasons for doing it aren't really any of my business. I'm going to watch it because it's interesting to watch...train wreck or not.

People confuse popular with good.

[Iwar]

Ink Master Sweden started airing today...

Ink Master | TV6

[Clay McCay]

I just re-watched the Kore Flatmo interview the other day. I like what he said about magazine features, and awards and such not being validation. He also says some interesting stuff about how mediocre shit(I'm not saying the show is or isn't) doesn't really affect the top notch stuff at the end of the day. It's just a tv show. People's reasons for doing it aren't really any of my business. I'm going to watch it because it's interesting to watch...train wreck or not.

A train wreck would be far more interesting, more educational and much more "reality" than "Ink (shudder) Masters"

This show is garbage. It's a soap opera where they are using puppets instead of a script. Whatever though, as much as I hate these shows and honestly think they do more harm than good...I can see a silver lining. A very cynical silver lining, but still...a silver lining none the less.

That is ,that I am glad it is a bunch of half-wit boneheads. At least this way we don't have people getting TV apprenticeships from good solid tattooist that have spent years perfecting there technique. This way, the cool tat-bro tv-spawned bandwagon gang will just keep chasing there own tail...Not actual good tattooist with ethics and talent getting raped by 'merica who want to exploit the industry for every last drop of edgy-ness it has left.

I for one will be glad when the trendy tattoo garbage is done with. Tattooing is not going anywhere,and I am glad, but the whole hot-topic vibe can piss right off.

[Brock Varty]

Kore is a really grounded dude. The man knows what he is talking about....

@Clay McCay Word...

[Jennifer Stell]

Yup... Richard and I were in NYC last for this and the Smith Street Guest Spot...

It was interesting, but painful... Next week, is the Traditional Round. Richard is the Guest Judge... And, he ripped into everyone, and even snapped at Navarro, but in the end. They signed up to be judged, and so they were.

[Reyeslv]

Yup... Richard and I were in NYC last for this and the Smith Street Guest Spot...

It was interesting, but painful... Next week, is the Traditional Round. Richard is the Guest Judge... And, he ripped into everyone, and even snapped at Navarro, but in the end. They signed up to be judged, and so they were.

I will now watch my first episode!

[Jennifer Stell]

I will say this: Oliver, Nunez, and Navarro work crazy long hours, and deal with bullshit on a level that I would not want to even conceive to sign up for...

I was just happy that we got to get over and see Bert, Boltz, and the guys at S.S. in Brooklyn, and make some dough which put us within our mark of shop $tart-up. I got to go see Higgs, Hooper, Kings Ave, Invisible, and even though I'm still tired, we even had a convention the weekend we came back.... It's all worth it, we love tattooing, and this was for Oliver, after everything him and Richard lived out, it's hard for us to say no, making up for lost time...

I just wonder how the fuck they are going to edit all the fucks that came out of Richard mouth...

PS, Navarro shreds in his room sometimes when they aren't on set... He's good. Most people don't want to disturb him, but they needed him on-set, and they sent Richard to get him... Hahaha... Richard got him.

[eisen777]

Yea...now i am actually looking forward to watching the show just to see the Stell episode. More real tattooer guest judges would be good for that show.