Ink Masters

[G.Uristti]

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[G.Uristti]

hhmmmm....not sure I agree. It seems to me that tattooers used to have a style, which is really just a personality. in the last 15 to 20 yrs it seems to have become'' specialties''.... maybe that's just my personal copout, having always takin walkins in street shops. yeah youre probably right,my mentor ,GTC truly stunk at color, he hated it. I never really was able to ''get it'' until I was around ''colorists''.But back to the point ,...these shows ,are about diversity. Painting,etc. Maybe I should have stuck to signpainting,which Ive done since I was 12. I didnt start Tattooing till I was 24. And I still feel only, proficent.

ive been tattooing for about 15 years now and i can tell you tattooing in nyc was seemingly more diverse than it is now. i remember never being allowed to turn down a tattoo cause we you didnt work in that style. my mentor instilled in me the fact that i should always be well rounded. the only thing i was allowed to turn down was portraits and at that time i would just turn them over to him. as an artist i think it great to have a style but as a technician i know one style doesnt teach you everything there is to know about tattooing. just my two cents of cours

[hgiles]

Some of thos portraits this week were 'busted'!

I'd respect a tattoist a whole lot more if he turned down my money saying "I can't do this at a level both of us would be happy with."

[Shannon Shirley]

I know this is rude, stay out of shit you dont understand.

Some of thos portraits this week were 'busted'!

I'd respect a tattoist a whole lot more if he turned down my money saying "I can't do this at a level both of us would be happy with."

[hgiles]

I know this is rude, stay out of shit you dont understand.

I very much understand the creative process, Shannon Shirley. You dont know me. And more than that, I know how to do business with integrity.

It's really no different than going to my doctor. He should be well-aware of his limitations and have the decency to refer me to a specialist when he's in over his head.

Based on your response (and your pics), I suspect youre one of those primadonna tattooist that I'd not want any work from anyway nor would I from any tattooer that doesnt understand my perspective as a collector and consumer.

Moreover, the rudeness of your comments shouldn't be nearly as concerning to you as their divisiveness and the manifestation of your ignorance.

[Petri Aspvik]

What I have seen (or read) that Shannon writes, I would venture she is pretty far from a primadonna :) An OG more likely.

[Kev]

...and a guy.

[Petri Aspvik]

Fuck me in the ass and call me pretty! Shiet... Sorry man :D

[Scott R]

@hgiles I am not speaking for shannon, just my 2 cents on your post. If I was a tattoer especially in a street shop I would do my best to give the best tattoo I can but would never turn away a request. I may try to lead them down a more doable road but the customer came to me for service and I am going to get it done. If customer was interested in specialized custom work he would have researched and 1. not be in my street shop or 2. he looked around a bit and chose me. Most people who get tattooed decide they want one and go to the nearest shop or a shop their buddy got tattooed at and go make an appt. Either way I run a business and have to make tattoos to live.

[Shannon Shirley]

and likewise......you dont know me. Extra long words dont make you intelligent or a ''tattoo expert''. if you knew anything about me you would know, a primadonna ?,I am not. Im one of the most self criticle people I know. I know I suck. And I dont think going to get a tattoo is anything like going to a doctor.

I very much understand the creative process, Shannon Shirley. You dont know me. And more than that, I know how to do business with integrity.

It's really no different than going to my doctor. He should be well-aware of his limitations and have the decency to refer me to a specialist when he's in over his head.

Based on your response (and your pics), I suspect youre one of those primadonna tattooist that I'd not want any work from anyway nor would I from any tattooer that doesnt understand my perspective as a collector and consumer.

Moreover, the rudeness of your comments shouldn't be nearly as concerning to you as their divisiveness and the manifestation of your ignorance.

[hgiles]

Then we can agree to disagree. Its a simple case of caveat venditor vs. caveat emptor. Only one way works as BOTH a buyer AND as a seller. Only one way presents a 'win-win' proposition and that is the way I like mine served up. You either have your own best interest in mind or the client's. Anyone I pay good money to better have my best interest in mind...

Otherwise is the way people end up with 'DRAKE' tattooed on their forehead.

[Hogrider]

Anyone I pay good money to better have my best interest in mind...

Good luck with that.

[Scott R]

@hgiles did the artist who did your right arm advise you that he was not the best in class for your idea?

If a customer goes into Burger king does the employee tell them there is a better burger joint across the street?

Art is so subjective and most including myself will be very naive about what they are looking at. As someone providing a subjective service(which is usually a collaboration of 2 if not more minds) I would feel compelled to put forward my best efforts , without turning away business. Its part of the consumers responsibility to know what he is in market for. If I sell mid level cars and i have a customer that wants one of them i dont reiterate that its not as good as X brand.

I assume that the guy looking at my ford taurus is not in the market for a mercedes benz.

[Shannon Shirley]

you are not the average walk in. My whole point was about how ''Ink Masters'' seems to try and play a double standard.Taking some ''specialists'' and trying to see how diverse they are. It doesnt make sense to me. A friend of a co tattooer of mine is/was on this show, he specializes in Jap/style, he seemed uncomfortable with some of the projects. Its shameful, I would not like to be on any of these shows, I would come off an idiot. although I feel proficent at a few different crafts displayed on this show, TV seems to be more about humiliation , rather than uplifting the craft. Lets face it, Just because your a rockstar, it doesnt make your opinions valid. All these reality shows are about conflict more than anything. I knew a guy that was on ,I think the first ''Real World''. He was handpicked by his uncle an MTV producer. he was picked because he liked to rub people wrong, just to see if he could get under thier skin. Its TV, not reality. Your average tattoo customer , doesnt care about any of this, blogs,TV, any of it. I seem to do more cover ups than ever, lots of tattooers wont even try.So, I try and help people with thier tattoo problems daily. Its not easy. Its hard. But, I try and do the best that I can. To quote my friend,S.Sylvia....''It beats cuttin' pork chops''. Because I care about what I do, I could make a better living doing another trade Im qualified to do, But I would rather push myself personally, Doing something I care about. Doing the best that I can , while Im here.

Then we can agree to disagree. Its a simple case of caveat venditor vs. caveat emptor. Only one way works as BOTH a buyer AND as a seller. Only one way presents a 'win-win' proposition and that is the way I like mine served up. You either have your own best interest in mind or the client's. Anyone I pay good money to better have my best interest in mind...

Otherwise is the way people end up with 'DRAKE' tattooed on their forehead.

[hgiles]

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@hgiles did the artist who did your right arm advise you that he was not the best in class for your idea?

If a customer goes into Burger king does the employee tell them there is a better burger joint across the street?

.

I didnt say anything about expecting 'the best'. I expect satisfaction. Something BOTH the artist AND collector can be happy with. I have had artists tell me, "I can get you a sitting with Mike Roper if want?". "...Filip Leu." "You should see Dana Helmuth for that...". I can respect that.

@Scott R Obviously we have a difference of opinion. Personally, I'd expect my tattooer to know better and advise me accordingly and protect me from myself should I have a bad idea or if I am asking him more than he can deliver...

...Which brings me back to the show. There have been some bad tattoos done on the show. This show puts artists and collectors in a bad spot cause the artist can't say NO where they might normally do so. So in that sense I don't like the format of the show. That and the fact that they treat the collectors, patrons, appreciatorsof the art form like 'canvasses', like cattle.

[JAllen]

if it was anything like going to a doctor, i'd gladly accept $60 to tell you to see my specialist buddy and then also gladly accept another $60 to have you come back and see me to tell me how the visit with my specialist buddy went. or really what would be great is if we could get someone else involved like a large corporate insurance group and you can make regular payments to them of say $250. then come see me, i'll take $15 from you and then i'll send a bill to the insurance group for $100. then you can see my buddy and come back and give me another $15 and then i'll send another bill for $100 out and we'll all feel better about the situation since you only had to pay me $30 to not really do anything other than have a little chat. i'll actually come out ahead on the money side. so it's kinda nothing like going to the doctor.

not to be inflammatory, just an observation

as far as being treated like cattle, i agree but the whole premise of this show is designed for sheep and the help mold new sheep for the herd.

[Gregor]

ooft ... I dont know any Tattooer who would knock back work in this day and age. Send you to another shop ???!! No chance !! They might refer you to another artist within the same shop (maybe ...) . Its a buyers market up there and its up to the artists to keep their skills up ...

[Shadow]

ooft ... I dont know any Tattooer who would knock back work in this day and age. Send you to another shop ???!! No chance !! They might refer you to another artist within the same shop (maybe ...) . Its a buyers market up there and its up to the artists to keep their skills up ...

While I agree that this is usually the case, there are exceptions. My partner has a large scar on her lower leg that she would eventually like to try tattooing over. Freddy Corbin did a couple of tattoos on her back and went over another, much smaller, scar. She talked to him about tattooing the larger scar on her leg and he wasn't comfortable doing it, but referred her to someone (at a different shop) who would. She found Freddy in the first place by being referred to him by a tattooer in San Diego after she told him she was moving to Oakland.

[hgiles]

ooft ... I dont know any Tattooer who would knock back work in this day and age. Send you to another shop ???!! No chance !! They might refer you to another artist within the same shop (maybe ...) . Its a buyers market up there and its up to the artists to keep their skills up ...

The guys I go to aren't hard up for work and my tattoo is not going to make or break their month. Moreover, they name their price and I pay it and you tell me I can't even expect a little bit of professionalism and ethics? So, you're telling me you just do what the dollar tells you to do whether or not you can do it up to expectations or not?

Sorry, I expect a shoe-shine boy to operate like that, but not someone I am paying $200+/hr. I pay that for their experience, wisdom, and guidance as well as their technical ability to do a good tattoo. If you really want to be respected as artists and transcend that whole 'service oriented' stigma and command the premium you should re-consider your purpose and the way you do business. I mean, Damn. Even a waitress making $3.35/hr is gonna tell me when to avoid the 'special'.

But, I know -- this is 'different'. :p (It always is, isn't it?) And I have no idea what I am talking about.

FWIW, I went into no fewer than three shops (one in New Orleans, One in Ohio, and one in VA) that turned me away saying "You should go back to your previous artist. I can't put a good tattoo next to your other work." So, I have had seen guys turn away work. Granted, these weren't 'bottom feeding' kinds of shops and they really didn't need my business to eat that week.

[hgiles]

ooft ... I dont know any Tattooer who would knock back work in this day and age. Send you to another shop ???!! No chance !! They might refer you to another artist within the same shop (maybe ...) . Its a buyers market up there and its up to the artists to keep their skills up ...

The guys I go to aren't hard up for work and my tattoo is not going to make or break their month. Moreover, they name their price and I pay it and you tell me I can't even expect a little bit of professionalism and ethics? So, you're telling me you just do what the dollar tells you to do whether or not you can do it up to expectations? Nice. I bet that feels rewarding at the end of the day.

Sorry, I expect a shoe-shine boy to operate like that, but not someone I am paying $200+/hr. to apply permanent images under a limited supply of skin. I take tattoos very seriously. And I am very discriminating in my choices. I pay (without complaint, without haggling, and with a tip) for their experience, wisdom, and guidance as well as their technical ability to do a good tattoo. If you really want to be respected as artists and transcend that whole 'service oriented' stigma and command the premium, you should re-consider your purpose and the way you do business. I mean, Damn. Even a waitress making $3.35/hr is gonna tell me when to avoid the 'special'.

But, I know -- this is 'different'. :p (It always is, isn't it?) And perhaps I have no idea what I am talking about.

FWIW, I went into no fewer than three shops (one in New Orleans, One in Ohio, and one in VA) that turned me away saying "You should go back to your previous artist. I can't put a good tattoo next to your other work." So, I have had seen guys turn away work when confronted with an ethical dilemma. Granted, these weren't 'bottom feeding' kinds of shops and they really didn't need my business to eat that week.

@Scott R, since you asked about my right arm. The artist that did that is internationally acclaimed in the Japanese style and he did a tattoo that both he and I are happy with. No problem.

Back to the show, gents! :)

[posterboy7596]

I was thinking as I read the last couple pages of comments about what a tattooer I trust a lot told me recently. At first I thought it came down on the side of "pro specialist" but in reading the recent stuff and thinking about it a bit more I think it may come down on the "anti specialist" side. To paraphrase him -a good tattoo artist should be able to do a wide range of things. It also makes me think of something I read that I believe either Kore Flatmo or Myke Chambers said. It was something about how anyone who considers themselves a tattoo artist should be able to make clean lines and pack in color. I think on a larger scale, tattooing is such a diverse field that as long as someone is putting out quality work, it's hard to say that what they do is "right" or "wrong". There are walk-in street shops because there is a market for that. There are also appointment only, private, total custom shops, because there is a market for them. A TV show is just that, a show. Their goal is to make something people will watch, and part of that is creating something that people will talk about as well. I watch the show because it has some interesting elements and holds my attention for 40 minutes. I couldn't give less of a shit what Spike TV and it's minions think about anything.

[Kevin Campbell]

Then we can agree to disagree. Its a simple case of caveat venditor vs. caveat emptor. Only one way works as BOTH a buyer AND as a seller. Only one way presents a 'win-win' proposition and that is the way I like mine served up. You either have your own best interest in mind or the client's. Anyone I pay good money to better have my best interest in mind...

Otherwise is the way people end up with 'DRAKE' tattooed on their forehead.

That's really neat that the dudes you go to charge 200 dollars an hour and have your best interest in mind. Us "shoeshine" boys don't always get to pick and choose what we get to tattoo.

[Gregor]

Maybe the artists I know are more confident in their abilities to put on a good tattoo regardless of style. A tattooist should be able to pick up all types of work imo . There's always a preferred style but they should be good enough artists to pick up the bread and butter work. The artists I speak to all have 3 month + waiting lists but they would not knock back anything, they would consult with you and advise you how they envisioned the piece . If you dont like it then you dont need to put your deposit down , you can go elsewhere. I cant see whats unprofessional or unethical about that ?

I think it goes without saying that most users of this forum are very discriminating in their choices and take tattoos very seriously else we wouldnt be here discussing it, we'd be down the local kitchen getting some cool olde english script up our forearms , so no its not "different" ....

I think you are being contrary ...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/contrary

[hgiles]

Yeah, perhaps I expect too much. Perhaps I respect the artists more than I should. Maybe I am on Fantasy Island. Maybe I holdthe art form and profession in too high a regard. Quite possible.

I still say "To whom much is given, much is required".

Anyway, The right artist won last night. It was good to see that they judged it right.

[irezumi]

FWIW, I went into no fewer than three shops (one in New Orleans, One in Ohio, and one in VA) that turned me away saying "You should go back to your previous artist. I can't put a good tattoo next to your other work."

That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Also, who is charging you 200 or more $ an hour?