Don't know good work from bad yet?

[Stewart Robson]

You can learn a lot more from doing 200 thoughtful (but quick) sketches, than you can from 20 amateurish (but clean) drawings. It's rarely the goal in the beginning to be able to tattoo what you produce.

It seems sensible to blame the lack of a formal apprenticeship but there's no excuse for verbatim copies of custom tattoos.

In my non-existent apprenticeship I learned to not copy whole compositions, but to try to understand the way design and layout problems were solved by my favourite tattooers.

It's crazy because there's so much great tattooable flash that's cool to tattoo.

[Scott R]

stewart thats what I thought, with so much flash (shared art) why take a custom piece

[kollin]

honestly if it's his wife that is getting the sleeve she is probably going through mags and interweb stuff telling him I want this and that. He is probably stoked because he is putting them in his portfolio. It's like a shitty bonnie and clyde scenario. I have had girlfriends in the past hang out at the shop looking at magazines and saying I want this and I want that. It boils down to they see something cool that's already been tattooed and now know it's tattooable. It's a combination of no imagination and lack of trust. I want it just like this because if you put your spin on it, it will not be as awesome. Not understanding that original artist will dust the other guy in technical and everything else. And secondly, lack of education. Everything is so right click save in a folder. From the privacy of your house where no one will give you the finger wave head shake and mom look. Just have to not give up on people and start educating them. Let them know low class people steal shit and there is a huge moral with tattooing. At least the tattooers that will stick around, the rest will be back to building houses in no time

[JAllen]

i think this is somewhat of a "slippery slope", if tattooing is to be considered "fine art" and copying should not occur it creates this paradox that makes me wonder how its ok to copy norman rockwell's version of rosie the riveter or some other piece of fine art as a tattoo. other mediums don't get the same time of respect that is expected within tattooing when it comes to reproduction. obviously it's easier to identify when these reproductions occur within the same medium because it will be viewed by the same audience more often than not. even if you create an image for one individual it is always possible that the image will resonate with other people who might see it, they might not attach the same level of attraction to it as say a movie character or a cartoon character that they would want reproduced as a tattoo but there is obviously a resonance that the image carried for them to want it.

i guess i think of it like going to see a bar band play covers, at the end of each song i'm not going to yell and say hey that was a (insert band name here) song. i know i'm not seeing the real deal performing.

now with all of that said, i think its funny that the guy who did valerie copy put his name and a big copyright on the pic of his tattoo. but that is also the same amusement i find when i see another piece of art from another medium copied and then the tattoo "artist" puts their copyright on it.

[tammy]

or this...

[kollin]

Jallen, you're absolutely correct in that aspect. Example. I want a sailor jerry eagle that is on that flash poster. That eagle is set to make a quick buck. Rosie the rivet girl is another propaganda poster not unlike flash these days. Even though it's the double edge sword of Sailor Jerry, Bert Grim, Norman Rockwell, Vargas nose art or even Elvgren there should be at the very least a purchase of the image to give the artist that recognition. I'm not above, nor should any artist be above replicating flash infact that's how you get better as an artist but I will always try to change up the flash a little bit cause 20 of the same heart banner gets boring. Most of the time you don't see it because everyone knows you didn't draw and invent bugs bunny doin the space jam. But here's my view on the theft. He didn't give a credit to original artist. He didn't ask her, obviously she said so lol. If you want a girl with a wolf headress, that's different, because she wasn't the first person to draw a girl with a head dress, but god dammit that's her picture. My girl with a head dress would be 100% different than hers because blog pics aren't wall flash, nor reference for what your tattoo should look like and google sucks any time you add tattoo to the end of any word. Plus I think the fact that he might be better than most of the replicated scratch art makes it worse because he's passing off her shit as his. He's riding coat tails instead of making his own wake. I think I just ranted and vented a bit lol carry on

[JAllen]

@kollin, i agree with you except for that norman rockwell and vargas aren't the same as flash. they are in fact images that carry a copyright so i guess it's like it can't be both ways. just like there is an assumption that bugs bunny space jam wasn't an original drawing, it's an assumption on peoples part that a tattoo someone did was something they drew rather than just a reproduced flash image. i'm not really trying to defend the guy who ripped off the tattoo so much as saying it's all this big internet tattoo art paradox that isn't worth wasting time on worrying about. it doesn't foster any type of positive outcome.

[ScottDees]

Our industry is full of "Tattoo Artist" that can't draw. So they cheat. The really odd thing about these people is they have the largest ego's in the biz. Go figure, you would think the guy being ripped off would have the ego for being good enough to be noticed.

[spencerkmyta]

Dear Valerie Vargas,

In my relatively short tattoo career, like most artists, I have made good and bad decisions, and everything in between. I am an artist far capable of my own design work, and have no intention of excuses if I have in any way offended you.

Carly has been a huge fan of your artwork for as long as I've known her, long before I had ever stumbled upon your portfolio. The two pieces that reflected your original work were meant to be "loosely based fan art", of course that term comes with a grey area, and after reading some of the comments throughout this thread I can see that many or most people think I overstepped a line. In retrospect, the comment I noted most true, and that drove a point home for me was "I think the biggest shame is for the owner of the original tattoo".

We had made some changes here or there to both designs, and I have and never would claim the tattoos to be custom pieces in any way. They were without denial Valerie Vargas designs, and any one who has ever complimented the piece in my studio has been told about your work. The watermark went on the photo only because each of my portfolio pieces at that time had it, and it was added in reference to the photo, not the design. The internet makes the world a little smaller, and although I had once thought I would like to speak with you one day, I certainly had never hoped this would be the context of our conversation.

I apologize to those offended, or who felt I was intentionally plagiarizing. At the end of the day, this did, undoubtably teach me a lesson and clear up that "grey area". We are fans of your work, and at the end of the day the responsibility for the integrity of my work falls on my shoulders, not Carly's. She is my wife but also a client. Perhaps some lessons come just in time for the new year.

Thankyou.

[Tight-Lines]

I think a phone call might be better.

[spencerkmyta]

Forgot to tag... (hope this works)

Dear @Valerie Vargas

In my relatively short tattoo career, like most artists, I have made good and bad decisions, and everything in between. I am an artist far capable of my own design work, and have no intention of excuses if I have in any way offended you.

Carly has been a huge fan of your artwork for as long as I've known her, long before I had ever stumbled upon your portfolio. The two pieces that reflected your original work were meant to be "loosely based fan art", of course that term comes with a grey area, and after reading some of the comments throughout this thread I can see that many or most people think I overstepped a line. In retrospect, the comment I noted most true, and that drove a point home for me was "I think the biggest shame is for the owner of the original tattoo".

We had made some changes here or there to both designs, and I have and never would claim the tattoos to be custom pieces in any way. They were without denial Valerie Vargas designs, and any one who has ever complimented the piece in my studio has been told about your work. The watermark went on the photo only because each of my portfolio pieces at that time had it, and it was added in reference to the photo, not the design. The internet makes the world a little smaller, and although I had once thought I would like to speak with you one day, I certainly had never hoped this would be the context of our conversation.

I apologize to those offended, or who felt I was intentionally plagiarizing. At the end of the day, this did, undoubtably teach me a lesson and clear up that "grey area". We are fans of your work, and at the end of the day the responsibility for the integrity of my work falls on my shoulders, not Carly's. She is my wife but also a client. Perhaps some lessons come just in time for the new year.

Thankyou.

[Patriot Ink Tattoo]

Then take look at this "Spencer Kmyta" tattoo

And compare it to the original @Valerie Vargas tattoo which he obviously tried to rip off

It's like the second picture in his online portfolio! The fucking nerves on this dude....

Same thing happened to @Stefan Johnsson a little while back (different hack though)

Look how scetchy the eyes of the "wolf hat" are on the rip off. What the hell?

[Patriot Ink Tattoo]

Its awful for the wearer of the original image check these :

Original by Billy Hay:

Copy by someone called Kevin Clark:

The "copier" doesn't even have the shading right on the leaves.

[tammy]

@spencerkmyta, thanks for joining LST and explaining the situation. It took big cajones and I can appreciate your honesty and humbleness.

Forgot to tag... (hope this works)

Dear @Valerie Vargas

In my relatively short tattoo career, like most artists, I have made good and bad decisions, and everything in between. I am an artist far capable of my own design work, and have no intention of excuses if I have in any way offended you.

Carly has been a huge fan of your artwork for as long as I've known her, long before I had ever stumbled upon your portfolio. The two pieces that reflected your original work were meant to be "loosely based fan art", of course that term comes with a grey area, and after reading some of the comments throughout this thread I can see that many or most people think I overstepped a line. In retrospect, the comment I noted most true, and that drove a point home for me was "I think the biggest shame is for the owner of the original tattoo".

We had made some changes here or there to both designs, and I have and never would claim the tattoos to be custom pieces in any way. They were without denial Valerie Vargas designs, and any one who has ever complimented the piece in my studio has been told about your work. The watermark went on the photo only because each of my portfolio pieces at that time had it, and it was added in reference to the photo, not the design. The internet makes the world a little smaller, and although I had once thought I would like to speak with you one day, I certainly had never hoped this would be the context of our conversation.

I apologize to those offended, or who felt I was intentionally plagiarizing. At the end of the day, this did, undoubtably teach me a lesson and clear up that "grey area". We are fans of your work, and at the end of the day the responsibility for the integrity of my work falls on my shoulders, not Carly's. She is my wife but also a client. Perhaps some lessons come just in time for the new year.

Thankyou.

[purple haze]

this is just my opinion. the guys so called rip off was wrong and clearley cheeky by passing it off with his name emblazened across it . maybe he should of put homage to v. vargas at the bottom would that have helped. he cant win either way . say he had done it line for line . every crisp detail and colour n shading he still would of been dug out. im by no means defending him . but as as another member said it was tattooed well. if a little bit cruder and not much detail hanging off the earlobes. but fk sake people need to lighten up. people are carrying on like hes the son of gaddafi whos just nuked half of the known civilized world. its right a phone call would be cool . but there are many images banded about with much cruder interpretations of what this guys done. surely like celebs that get hacked off being pursued by the paps. they put there selves out there to b photographed and idolised, so must tattoo fans and artists that put there art out on the world wide wait. knowing that there are people wanting the same design line for line or wont take no for an answer. maybe thats when tattooists

shud step in and say no and not be lazy in reproducing great pieces of art. as for some artists being lazy and not wanting to grow creatively. how ironic my posting was deleted saying such things not 3 weeks ago. now anyone for tea?

[kollin]

@kollin, i agree with you except for that norman rockwell and vargas aren't the same as flash. they are in fact images that carry a copyright so i guess it's like it can't be both ways. just like there is an assumption that bugs bunny space jam wasn't an original drawing, it's an assumption on peoples part that a tattoo someone did was something they drew rather than just a reproduced flash image. i'm not really trying to defend the guy who ripped off the tattoo so much as saying it's all this big internet tattoo art paradox that isn't worth wasting time on worrying about. it doesn't foster any type of positive outcome.

I know they're not flash just iconic images that will never be meant to be anything but a tough chick doin work and hot ladies on plane noses lol. Vargas is way more vague than Rockwell since you can throw any girl on a plane but ya know. No arguments here