Tattoos and the workplace

[semele]

Hahaha it depends on the campus - my university is tiny and very conservative, so I imagine it's different than teaching at, say, Berkeley or something.

That said, colleges campuses are definitely looser in the sense that there don't tend to be dress codes at all, but like I said, we end up policing ourselves based on how it is helpful to be perceived. If I didn't already struggle to have people take me seriously as a prof (I look about the same age as my students, and at least once a week someone--an admin, student, other prof, whatever--will literally NOT BELIEVE ME when I tell them I teach here) I would probably be more open to showing my tattoos. But as it is, this whole "you don't look like a professor" think already means I have to fight to be taken seriously, which makes it that much harder to do my job, etc.

I teach at a huge public university, and I let my tattoos show at work. I dress professionally to teach, but the sleeves and now my chest show most of the time. It doesn't seem to affect my classes or classroom authority very much, and I'm a pretty small young-looking lady too, but I like to keep my classes more casual than formal anyway.

I guess I don't really aim to seem professorial when I teach--at least where I am now, just standing in front of the classroom and acting in charge seems to make them respect me, but I'm not teaching super high level classes or graduate students, either.

That said, I think if I had intended on staying in academia or was trying to get a tenure-track position, I'd probably cover up more in the office. There's no dress code and no one has ever said anything negative to me, but out of the fifty or so people in my humanities department, there are only a couple of us with tattoos period, and I'm the only one approaching heavily tattooed. It probably wouldn't completely screw me over--we had a visiting professor a couple years ago with his hand done--but I don't think even public schools in academia are super tattoo-friendly, even if they're quiet about it.

The freshmen might think I'm the coolest adjunct in the department, though.

[asradin]

I know I'm not in the mainstream on this one, but personally, I look a little sideways at people who have faces/necks/hands, like that, all covered, with no other work. I'm sure it's just my own personal predjudices, but it seems to me that they are trying a wee little bit too hard.

I agree with you completely. I'm only 25 and won't even consider getting hands/neck/face done until a long time down the road (if ever). I don't see the point, I have other spaces still to go. Also as much as I would like to be one of the people who goes against the norm, I'm more concerned about losing everything I've worked for and will have to work for in the future (maybe that makes me a pussy but I'm ok with that). For me tattoos are a big part of my life, but I don't think they should ever affect the rest of my life in an adverse way. It's why no one at my work knows I have tattoos despite having my upper arms, torso, back, lower legs, one knee and both feet done. My work life is not my personal life, it's something that gives me the ability to have a personal life.

[Graeme]

I agree with you completely. I'm only 25 and won't even consider getting hands/neck/face done until a long time down the road (if ever). I don't see the point, I have other spaces still to go. Also as much as I would like to be one of the people who goes against the norm, I'm more concerned about losing everything I've worked for and will have to work for in the future (maybe that makes me a pussy but I'm ok with that). For me tattoos are a big part of my life, but I don't think they should ever affect the rest of my life in an adverse way. It's why no one at my work knows I have tattoos despite having my upper arms, torso, back, lower legs, one knee and both feet done. My work life is not my personal life, it's something that gives me the ability to have a personal life.

I think beyond the gainful employment thing, I wouldn't want to go on to non-concealable places because I don't want to always invite the attention. I used to work in a bar before I started my current job and one evening a couple of young-ish (ie mid-20s) guys came in with some really heavy tattoos...nice looking work, but hands, neck and throat, maybe faces, I don't remember...but it was an Irish pub that made most of its money off the pre-hockey game crowd and so they got a lot of stares, and I overheard them complaining about it to each other. And it's sort of like...what did they expect? You don't get that kind of coverage hoping to disappear into a crowd, and it has very little to do with perceptions of them being good or bad people.

[CultExciter]

I personally cannot wait to get my hands and throat done. But, everything else has to be done at that point. And I still have a lot of work to do.

[ThaliaCamille]

I think beyond the gainful employment thing, I wouldn't want to go on to non-concealable places because I don't want to always invite the attention. I used to work in a bar before I started my current job and one evening a couple of young-ish (ie mid-20s) guys came in with some really heavy tattoos...nice looking work, but hands, neck and throat, maybe faces, I don't remember...but it was an Irish pub that made most of its money off the pre-hockey game crowd and so they got a lot of stares, and I overheard them complaining about it to each other. And it's sort of like...what did they expect? You don't get that kind of coverage hoping to disappear into a crowd, and it has very little to do with perceptions of them being good or bad people.

I agree with this. The other concern aside from work is travel. It's bad enough to have to cover up arms or legs in a warm country where tattoos would be unacceptable, but imagine trying to cover up hands/neck/face in that environment. I don't know where I might end up wanting to explore, and although I'm not usually one to fret over what people think, the last thing I want is to threaten or offend people when I'm a tourist in their country.

[Delicious]

I really don't see the bad thing about conforming to society?

Like geeze, if you chose to get heavily tattooed, that is great, but the society we live in doesn't owe us shit for our personal choices. We make our choices, but if we want to take part in the professional world, we tailor to what the expectations are. And in the end, we benefit. They pay us money, so we get to live another day with food in our bellies, a roof over our heads, and money to get tattooed even more.

I think there is this entitlement feeling among alot of people, thinking that they are entitled to do what ever they want, and the world had better accept or hell will be raised. But, you can do you without compromising your spirit and while fitting into what is expected of you.

[Brock Varty]

It's not generational, trust me. When I was 25, I was riding all over the country, raising hell and partying hard-that's what 25 year olds of ANY generation do. Stability doesn't much enter into it as something to be acquired so much as something that is thrust on you by events. If, for any reason, you have kids somewhere down the line, you'll dig where I'm coming from.

Visible tattooing...now that's pretty subjective. Unless I'm wearing a neck to toe full body suit, you're seeing my tattoos. I think a few different levels should be distinguished. The first level would be the person that has, say, a tattoo on a forearm. Easliy covered, dirt common, no big deal for anyone. Next would be the person that has extensive coverage on the arms. Still easily covered, still pretty durn common, and still not an issue. Then there are those with full-sleeves. Even then, it isn't that uncommon, and can be hidden if necessary. Won't even bother talking about the torso, cause you're only going to be showing that work on purpose.

So that leaves the next "class", people with work on their necks. This is where you're going to start getting looks, but still, it really isn't all that uncommon. There is a matter of degree here, too. Someone with a smaller work on their neck probably won't experience the negativity that someone with their entire neck wrapped in ink will.

Hands? That's next up. Traditionally hands have been the province of convicts, bikers, sailors, or other ne'er do wells. People still see them that way, but I don't think it's a big, insurmountable thing. IT may inconvenience you a bit here and there, but I don't believe they would be too limiting.

Now. The face. REAL visible tattooing. I'm gonna part company with you on this one, because the only facial tattooing I can see any reason for is teardrops, and I don't think you're that kinda guy! Seriously, once you put ink on your face, you've pretty well screwed the pooch for any type of serious gig.

And that isn't necessarily bad.

What is bad is your age. You're gonna tattoo your face when you still have so much other room left? I know I'm not in the mainstream on this one, but personally, I look a little sideways at people who have faces/necks/hands, like that, all covered, with no other work. I'm sure it's just my own personal predjudices, but it seems to me that they are trying a wee little bit too hard.

When I said and say visible I mean one of three spots...face/neck/hands. Of those three, the face is the only place I would not go. It just isn't for me. I feel like your face and being able to see your face is part of how people interact with you. It is kind of contradictory that I would want visible work with the intent of helping to interact with and change people minds. I realize that fully. The face is just a level that I will not think about for a long time.

I think it is important that I stop here and say a few more things about myself and visible tattoos. I have one hand and one arm completely covered. I have nothing on my knuckles, my other hand, or neck. I don't think people should tattoo anything visible unless they have fully thought out the ramifications of what can and will happen. I did that. I sat on the idea of getting my hand done for about a year and a half. I know all of the things that can and will happen to me because of my choice and I am prepared to deal with that. I am absolutely not for getting visible work because it is cool, or popular, or to be different, or any other weird reasons. I made my decision for myself and I hope that in my own way I can help to change peoples opinion. No one has to like it, its fine if you or anyone else doesn't. I don't expect to be treated the same as everyone else. On that same note though, I would expect that anyone who takes the time to know me and talk to me, would see that visible tattoos are not connected to my ability in life, or my intelligence.

@Delicious You are correct in alot of what you say. I would agree with almost all of it. I just wanted to say that even though we can fit into the expectations and particpate in the professional world where individualism doesn't matter, it doesn't mean we can't try to change what is expected and change what is commonplace. I don't think anyone would argue that being able to look any way you want, and get any job you want, would be great. Obviously certain things get you discluded from certain jobs...I think that anyone who makes the choice to get visible work should know that beforehand...

@Everyone else...

There is lots of good discussion in here. I am happy that so many people have an opinion to share. Thanks for the back and forth.

[David Flores]

I see the hands and face more of something you should do as an accomplishment. I know a guy pretty heavily covered, owns his own coffee drive thru franchises, but basically said he's waiting to do his hands till he can say he's a millionaire. This isn't some sort of self imposed dress code or rule by him, as he hire whoever regardless of tattoos, but more a way to reward himself for his hard work and accomplishment and at the same time not rushing into highly visible tattoos. He is still his own boss and most nights of the week you will find him at the local tiki bar or at some live music show, he's living the life, he doesn't need anything else to prove that.

Then I go into the mall to the cool kid clothing store or corporate "skate shop" and see the kid with ears the size of elephants and some graffiti style lettering across his throat and the only thing I can think is "douche" . He probably lives at home with his mom or at best with 3 other guys in an apartment living on a steady diet of top ramen and 211 and watching the same three dvd's over and over. I mean I can't judge too much, I did that too I just drank better beer so had no money for neck tattoos.

But the point is at that point in our lives most of us hadn't accomplished shit, hell we could barely pay rent on time. But the tattoo is supposed to tell me you are cool or don't conform to society because you do exactly the same thing every dumb kid does.

I know in a way they are sweeping generalizations and personally I am at the point in my life where dress codes about tattoos are about the dumbest things I can think of, but their is still such a thing as a right and wrong way to get tattooed, in my opinion you should live the lifestyle before you get the tattoo.

Also my tattoo choices in my 30's are way better than my 20's.

[Pugilist]

Then I go into the mall to the cool kid clothing store or corporate "skate shop" and see the kid with ears the size of elephants and some graffiti style lettering across his throat and the only thing I can think is "douche" . He probably lives at home with his mom or at best with 3 other guys in an apartment living on a steady diet of top ramen and 211 and watching the same three dvd's over and over. I mean I can't judge too much,

Hahahahaha :)

[CultExciter]

@David Flores A Steel Reserve reference!

From Wikipedia:

"In 2012, Steel Reserve received the Gold medal in the category of 'American-Style Premium Lager or Specialty Lager' at the World Beer Cup.[1]"

For real?

[slayer9019]

@David Flores A Steel Reserve reference!

From Wikipedia:

"In 2012, Steel Reserve received the Gold medal in the category of 'American-Style Premium Lager or Specialty Lager' at the World Beer Cup.[1]"

For real?

When I lived in Newark, Steelies were the only beer I drank. Seriously cheap!

[David Flores]

@David Flores A Steel Reserve reference!

From Wikipedia:

"In 2012, Steel Reserve received the Gold medal in the category of 'American-Style Premium Lager or Specialty Lager' at the World Beer Cup.[1]"

I think pabst won a gold medal as well. It's kind of like all those awards they give away at most tattoo conventions, you make up enough categories and everyone can win a prize.

[reverend1]

I think pabst won a gold medal as well. It's kind of like all those awards they give away at most tattoo conventions' date=' you make up enough categories and everyone can win a prize.

For real?[/quote']

That depressing

[PhilB]

Why so pessimistic my man? Why not want an ideal situation? If you never aspire to change something, it will never change. If everyone just sticks with the attitude you seem to have, nothing would ever change.

Realism != pessimism. I'm not saying the current situation is right, just that it is. You have no idea what my attitude is.

Just because you think people shouldn't be getting judged by their appearance, doesn't mean they aren't. I am of North African/Middle Eastern decent. Should I explain to border guards (not as much an issue now, thanks to Nexus card) and airport security that they shouldn't let that make them give me extra scrutiny because I'm an atheist who was born in this country, thus taking me out of the potential terrorist category? No, I realize that there is a stigma associated with looking like me, and I show up extra early if I ever have to deal with security (maybe I should cross with tattoos more visible. Sleeve depicting science themes should help them rule me out!)

Is it right? You decide. But it definitely is.

[Graeme]

I think pabst won a gold medal as well. It's kind of like all those awards they give away at most tattoo conventions, you make up enough categories and everyone can win a prize.

The way most beer competitions work is that beers are entered into different categories and are then judged against the criteria set forth in those categories so what is normally being judged, to be a little bit cynical about it, is technical competence and falling within the range of what is considered acceptable for the style. That the beer is "good" or not isn't really the point.

[David Flores]

The way most beer competitions work is that beers are entered into different categories and are then judged against the criteria set forth in those categories so what is normally being judged, to be a little bit cynical about it, is technical competence and falling within the range of what is considered acceptable for the style. That the beer is "good" or not isn't really the point.

But why does their need to be so many styles within styles. There aren't nearly as many American style Lagers on the market as say IPA's but they have about the same amount of categories for each to enter into and the beers that do win like you said aren't even neccesarily that good. They had some hybrid category where Chainbreaker IPA won a silver, it's an Oregon Beer, not very popular or good, there are plenty of American Style Belgian Beers and also IPA's that are better, but it's the only one that fit in their category so it won.

On a side note, I love the direction this thread has turned.

[slayer9019]

But why does their need to be so many styles within styles. There aren't nearly as many American style Lagers on the market as say IPA's but they have about the same amount of categories for each to enter into and the beers that do win like you said aren't even neccesarily that good. They had some hybrid category where Chainbreaker IPA won a silver, it's an Oregon Beer, not very popular or good, there are plenty of American Style Belgian Beers and also IPA's that are better, but it's the only one that fit in their category so it won.

On a side note, I love the direction this thread has turned.

yea talk about derailed but it's good conversation

[CultExciter]

We only recently started getting Full Sail over here on the East Coast. Thoughts on Session as a cheap beer?

[SecondSkinStudios]

The jobs I have had, have not been a problem for me because i dont have anything "offensive". I have had trouble finding a job at times because of my tattoos and their visibility. However, I have come to realize I quite frankly don't care anymore and I'm getting covered regardless. Now working for a design shop and tattoo shop it doesnt really matter. I do get looks from older folks who come into the design shop to get shirts but our main goal is providing apparel for other tattoo shops so I do not care anymore. Times are changing anyways and everyone is getting tatted nowadays so soon it shouldn't be an issue.

[Graeme]

But why does their need to be so many styles within styles. There aren't nearly as many American style Lagers on the market as say IPA's but they have about the same amount of categories for each to enter into and the beers that do win like you said aren't even neccesarily that good. They had some hybrid category where Chainbreaker IPA won a silver, it's an Oregon Beer, not very popular or good, there are plenty of American Style Belgian Beers and also IPA's that are better, but it's the only one that fit in their category so it won.

On a side note, I love the direction this thread has turned.

There are plenty of IPAs on the market and while there's a variation between ones from different breweries--or between different ones from the same brewery!--all IPAs share fundamental characteristics regarding alcoholic strength, apparent extract, colour, bitterness, aroma, etc. Though if you put a Budweiser next to a Sam Adams Boston Lager next to a Pilsner Urquell...there's very little in common between them other than the type of fermentation. How many examples there are of each style doesn't really matter.

Personally though, I think way too many people are far too concerned with beer style.

[SStu]

I see the hands and face more of something you should do as an accomplishment.

I've had a very respected tattooist tell me (and not because I was asking for one) that his opinion was that hand and neck tattoos should only be done on other tattooists. He won't do them on the general public.

[David Flores]

I've had a very respected tattooist tell me (and not because I was asking for one) that his opinion was that hand and neck tattoos should only be done on other tattooists. He won't do them on the general public.

For the most part I would side with that opinion, but maybe include rock stars in that mix, but not to the point as I would turn someone away who wanted one, I would try to talk them into getting it in another spot, but adults can make their own decisions/mistakes.

[Dan S]

For decades, CTC would not tattoo the hands, neck, or face. Policy laid-down by Cliff Raven and continued by Dale Grande. That isn't the case anymore, can't say 'zactly when it was changed, but it was pretty much a case of you pays your money and you takes your chances. As has been said, only adults can be tattoed, and they won't work on anyone who is under the influence, so...

[Brock Varty]

I see the hands and face more of something you should do as an accomplishment. I know a guy pretty heavily covered, owns his own coffee drive thru franchises, but basically said he's waiting to do his hands till he can say he's a millionaire. This isn't some sort of self imposed dress code or rule by him, as he hire whoever regardless of tattoos, but more a way to reward himself for his hard work and accomplishment and at the same time not rushing into highly visible tattoos. He is still his own boss and most nights of the week you will find him at the local tiki bar or at some live music show, he's living the life, he doesn't need anything else to prove that.

Then I go into the mall to the cool kid clothing store or corporate "skate shop" and see the kid with ears the size of elephants and some graffiti style lettering across his throat and the only thing I can think is "douche" . He probably lives at home with his mom or at best with 3 other guys in an apartment living on a steady diet of top ramen and 211 and watching the same three dvd's over and over. I mean I can't judge too much, I did that too I just drank better beer so had no money for neck tattoos.

But the point is at that point in our lives most of us hadn't accomplished shit, hell we could barely pay rent on time. But the tattoo is supposed to tell me you are cool or don't conform to society because you do exactly the same thing every dumb kid does.

I know in a way they are sweeping generalizations and personally I am at the point in my life where dress codes about tattoos are about the dumbest things I can think of, but their is still such a thing as a right and wrong way to get tattooed, in my opinion you should live the lifestyle before you get the tattoo.

Also my tattoo choices in my 30's are way better than my 20's.

That is an interesting way to view visible work. When a fella thinks about it, it makes perfect sense. A reward for accomplishing things in life. Instead of buyinmg a Corvette, you get your hands tattooed...I could get behind that.

Curious though, of what you and everyone thinks...what exactly does "you should live the lifestyle before you get the tattoo" mean to people? to me the "lifestyle is more of a mental state or spirit than something measurable. Thoughts......?

Edit: I am most definetaly not the "mall douche" you described......

Realism != pessimism. I'm not saying the current situation is right, just that it is. You have no idea what my attitude is.

Just because you think people shouldn't be getting judged by their appearance, doesn't mean they aren't. I am of North African/Middle Eastern decent. Should I explain to border guards (not as much an issue now, thanks to Nexus card) and airport security that they shouldn't let that make them give me extra scrutiny because I'm an atheist who was born in this country, thus taking me out of the potential terrorist category? No, I realize that there is a stigma associated with looking like me, and I show up extra early if I ever have to deal with security (maybe I should cross with tattoos more visible. Sleeve depicting science themes should help them rule me out!)

Is it right? You decide. But it definitely is.

I kind of made an assumption about your state of mind/attitude... I could have done better to avoid that. I apologize. You are right though, even if it isn't right it still is. It would be ideal if it was not that way...but, as with anything, there will always be people who see something wrong with it. I don't expect to be treated with respect and kindness by everyone...I understood that when I chose to get visible work. I guess that I just hope to help the situation, rather than hurt it. Maybe by the time my kids are my age, things will be different...

[David Flores]

@Brock Varty I was trying to convey the accomplishment as something less tangible than a corvette. Anyone can buy a corvette, anyone can get a hand tattoo, but not everyone can create truly become a self made man and not just buy the t shirt that says they are. That is the lifestyle I am speaking of. Hand a neck tattoos should say "fuck the world" not "welcome to hot topic".