suggestions for aiding newcomers

[MsRad]

i was serious about my suggestion for a read me first page (or sticky?), that would be an easy resource for newcomers (or even regulars) as to when they have a question that can easily be answered within or outside of this forum. i'm willing to write it up, and that way, rather than bickering back and forth with someone who is new, we can simply just link them to the page if they have a question that can already be answered.

[Mel Noir]

I think this is a really good idea, it could really work.

[Steve]

Hi Guys - thanks for suggesting this - team LST 100% on-board with this idea. Maybe we can use this thread to collect all of your ideas about what should go into the 'tattoo newbie read-me article'.

Once we have collected all of the important bits of info, we'll assemble it into a concise, well-formatted article, and add it as a sub-menu item linked from the home page next to tattoo interviews.

Here's to focusing on education and keeping the attitude friendly and positive on LST. Cheers.

[MsRad]

i think some of the things that should be addressed are the real basics, such as this forum isn't here to be a substitute for an artist. it's unrealistic for us to give anyone a quote or tell them how long something will take, as both of those are dependent on the design and the artist. also, having links to all the individual threads on the different types/styles of tattoos(lady heads, rose morphs, black work, etc.) would be handy. also, why we won't answer certain questions (like how to build a machine) and why they may come off as offensive to some.

i'm sure i'll come up with more stuff, but this is a start.

[Mel Noir]

That's a pretty good start!

I think it might be beneficial to put something short in there about the actual designs and pictures of tattoos that are online, telling those who are new to tattooing that if you like something, you should want your own version of that from a good artist, instead of taking pictures from this site to see who'll copy it. From what I've heard from tattooers I know, that's an issue that seems to be worse at the minute.

Considering some people I know are sometimes surprised that tattooers don't just trace things from a load of books (or, good ones, anyway!) all day, I get the impression that those who are brand new to tattooing think that they can only get a limited amount of subjects and styles on them- just look at the thread that inspired this, the guy wanted a copy of a picture he saw online.

I think it might be a good idea to remind people to state not only where they're from, but also how far they can travel and a vague idea of what they're after, before asking for recommendations on studios. Some just say, "where's good in the UK?", and you're left thinking, "how do I answer that?!".

[Mel Noir]

Not that I think some flash stuff from time to time isn't bad by the way- if someone wants something from a flash book you own, I wouldn't think any less of anyone for wanting to do it, as long as they're humble enough to admit it's from someone else's drawing. :)

[dari]

Like Steve said, this is something we've been trying to get together, so please keep the suggestions coming. Thanks everyone for being a part of LST and caring enough to help improve the site and build this community in a positive way.

[AlannaCA]

thats sounds awesome and its really cool to see LST grow like it is!

[MsRad]

alright, i've had it. i'm going to come up with a list tonight and send it around to a few people. Pat and i worked over the weekend on an introduction, but i think that maybe that introduction should be placed within the same vicinity of the questions and answers.

[Bubbleberry]

I think , as has been posted before, and as I have been reminded more than once, its important that everyone, no matter what their experience,understand that this is not the place to put people down or inflate our own egos - that we should treat other members with respect.

I would also suggest someone like Scott write a piece about how the industry is suffering because of scratchers, and that this website discourages technical questions because of that. Perhaps that could be a pm from the moderators/scott?

[Perez]

  Bubbleberry said:

"a piece about how the industry is suffering because of scratchers"

we already have that: It's right here

[MsRad]

i don't think Scott needs to write an introduction, but i will note it on the list that there are reasons why certain questions will not be answered and to be cautious if you are going to ask.

[Bubbleberry]

I believe Perez, that the point of this thread, was aiding newcomers succinctly and positively. I believe it was about being helpful and welcoming. Lets not drag down a very positive thread.

I know it was mentioned in respect to my previous adventure some time ago, put perhaps a bit of information about the ignore option would be helpful, ie "While we strive to make LST a welcoming, informative environment for all, at times other members will post questions or statements that cause offence. In the interest of all members we ask that you ignore those posts rather than involve yourself in an argument. You can ignore a member who writes posts that you are sensitive to by..."

[Ursula]

That's the point thought Brian, we shouldn't have use the ignore button.

[Jaycel Adkins]

Some thoughts:

If you start a thread, you are the steward of that thread, not just someone asking a question, so think about the following:

- Are you duplicating another thread that is already out there?

- Best to just ask your question and then let people trickle in with their replies, give it some time, knows it's the internet, but the people who you likely want to answer your question probably aren't watching you type your question as you are doing it.

- Take Responsibility for the demeanor of your thread, set the tone, maintain it, if things break down (it happens) and you got your question answered already or not (think, is it honestly that vital?), say you are retiring the thread and don't post there anymore, after a while, all threads go into the void.

- Be a polite host for your thread. Ignore posts that you deem to be rude, honestly, that's the best way to respond to them. Don't get caught in a back and forth of snark, it will immediately kill your thread and make people not want to post replies.

- Honestly, be a bit too polite, since it's just too easy to take offense.

- If this sounds like a lot of stuff, it is.

Speaks from experience, I started a thread and it went sideways, quickly and within a few days, I retired from it very dejected and embarrassed for myself. Do the above, and hopefully you won't have a similar experience.

[dari]

  Jaycel Adkins said:

Some thoughts:

If you start a thread, you are the steward of that thread, not just someone asking a question, so think about the following:

- Are you duplicating another thread that is already out there?

- Best to just ask your question and then let people trickle in with their replies, give it some time, knows it's the internet, but the people who you likely want to answer your question probably aren't watching you type your question as you are doing it.

- Take Responsibility for the demeanor of your thread, set the tone, maintain it, if things break down (it happens) and you got your question answered already or not (think, is it honestly that vital?), say you are retiring the thread and don't post there anymore, after a while, all threads go into the void.

- Be a polite host for your thread. Ignore posts that you deem to be rude, honestly, that's the best way to respond to them. Don't get caught in a back and forth of snark, it will immediately kill your thread and make people not want to post replies.

- Honestly, be a bit too polite, since it's just too easy to take offense.

- If this sounds like a lot of stuff, it is.

Speaks from experience, I started a thread and it went sideways, quickly and within a few days, I retired from it very dejected and embarrassed for myself. Do the above, and hopefully you won't have a similar experience.

Jaycel, this is all good advice.

[gougetheeyes]

  MsRad said:

alright, i've had it. i'm going to come up with a list tonight and send it around to a few people. Pat and i worked over the weekend on an introduction, but i think that maybe that introduction should be placed within the same vicinity of the questions and answers.

It almost seems too nice and pleasant at this point! But I think it's getting things going in the right direction.

[Jaycel Adkins]

  dari said:

Jaycel, this is all good advice.

Thank you!

I'll try and post something about 'insults' and how to deal with them tonight, I posted a link:

Twenty-First Century Stoic — Insult Pacifism – Boing Boing

But not sure posting a link in a burning house helped out that thread, but maybe here and for the future.

[Jaycel Adkins]

On the Prevention and Care of Insults

Alot of people join the forum to find and share information about tattoos and tattooers, and LST is a great resource for that. But, human nature being what it is, during all that finding and sharing, people can get cranky, snarky, rude, etc. just like in life.

Everyone works and tries to make LST a relatively jerk free forum. Here are some tips on keeping it that way:

Notice that I stated that LST is about tattoos and tattooers, but I did not say it was about TATTOOING, don't ask anyone shop questions, technique questions, etc. If you are new to the forums and not a tattooer, leave the subject alone. Trust me.

If someone ends up insulting you, this is what you do:

1. Ask yourself if you did something to cause the situation. Takes a bit of humility, but nothing wrong with that. If you did do something, then just say, 'Sorry, my mistake.' Then correct yourself, drop the issue. Don't get into a 'fight.' PLEASE!!

2. If you didn't do anything, then there are two options: DO NOT REPLY AT ALL or GIVE A SELF-DEPRECATING REPLY. The first option is the best one. If you didn't do something, and be honest about that, then not replying gives the other person nothing to grasp onto. If they force the issue, then they look like a troll and a moderator will warn them to back off or be banned.

3. If you are going to reply, then two things: be self-deprecating AND you better be funny! Honestly, most people are neither, at least, on the spot, so just stick with not replying, please.

There are two communities that make LST thrive, tattooers and people who have/want to get tattoos. Without the tattooers, the tattooed would be naked :o. Without the tattooed (now/soon) the tattooers would be....painters I guess?!? :p

Hopefully the above will let us spend more time talking and celebrating tattoos, and less time creating stress and unnecessary work for the people who put this forum together for us.

*Rough draft, some stuff I would want to want to edit down and other stuff I would want to build up, but general idea.

Please let me know what you think, rather this be a crowd sourced thing and not a few of us just posting up stuff.

Best,

Jaycel Adkins

[Lochlan]

Thanks everyone for the pro-activeness.....keep them coming. As mentioned we are working on some stuff and want your feedback.......

[Ursula]

I thought some of you might like this

[Steve]

Thanks again for all of your input. We have created a basic guide that new members are now automatically referred to here:

Tattoo Newbie Guidelines

[Jaycel Adkins]

That's Great!

Just two thoughts:

- Would 'Forum Newbie Guidelines' be a closer fit than 'Tattoo Newbie Guidelines?'

- Is there a way for everyone who registers to make comments in the forums to see that article as part of the registration process? If it stays as an article, when a few new ones come up, won't it just disappear?

Other than that, super cool and great!

[Steve]

  Jaycel Adkins said:

- Would 'Forum Newbie Guidelines' be a closer fit than 'Tattoo Newbie Guidelines?'

There is some info in there that is specific to people who are new to tattoo's as well, so it seemed more fitting, and potentially more eye-catching..

  Jaycel Adkins said:

- Is there a way for everyone who registers to make comments in the forums to see that article as part of the registration process? If it stays as an article, when a few new ones come up, won't it just disappear?

Yes, there is now messaging built in to the initial registration pages, as well a notice that displays for any user with less than 6 posts - directing them to the newbie article.

Thanks again for your suggestions and feedback - keep them coming!